So I'm Browsing DU, and for the first time I catch a headline about Duer's cheering the savage beating of Fox News reporters. This is the first I've heard of this horrific event, and it's not about the event, but rather about the apparently widespread callousness and inhuman schadenfreude being expressed by 'many' on DU.

Now, first, I'd like to say that open condemnation of anyone experiencing glee at human suffering is a trademark of what makes a progressive site for good, responsible, civil persons the shining example of the best traits in a national population of otherwise borderline psychotic primates. Not that I'm necessarily blaming the primates, but it's nice to see one place that tends to rise above the visceral and vitriolic far more often than not.

By that same shiny token; Why would so many nasty, horrible, violence-glorifying, vindictive, petty people be expressing so much viciousness on such an otherwise civil site?

So, I picked two prominent threads where the issue itself (the beatings) had been brought up, and took a snapshot. (I just left the various browsers window open and took tallies)

I did this; I counted up the number of posts in the threads, then meticulously went through and read every single one. At the time of counting, it was approximately 11:26pm EST. Between the two threads there were, at the time, 155 post. Now, I have no illusions that my time and effort to determine whether DU was a bastion of civility or a wretched hive of scum and villainy will be terribly appreciated, but I really wanted to get some kind of empirical sense of just how bad (or not) DU really was.

I used a fairly reasoned, if somewhat imperfect methodology to quantify my findings. I'll lay out the method as I put down the stats.

Between 23:20 and 23:30 on 2/3/11, a total sample of 155 posts was recorded between two total threads.

The selected categories of personal displays were as follows;

1)'Empathy/Concern' (for the reporters)
- This parameters for this category were very simple; any expressed concern or well-wishing for the victims, or condemnation of the attacks. -That was the easy one.

Out of 155 total posts, in this category, there were 50 indisputable instances of true empathy for the Fox News Crew.

2) Deleted posts/sub-threads
- This one seems fairly straightforward, but we've all seen the popular 'deleted scapegoat' on DU. If someone can't find an example to back something up, then it had to be a deleted post. In this case, I treated each of them as a quantity of one as it was either a single rules violation, or likely a post by one person followed by a rules violation by one or both of (usually) two adversaries. Either way, there is no way to determine the relevance of those deleted posts, and they permit a standard sample in the 'uncertainty' category.

There were a total of 3 deleted posts/sub-threads (1 and 2 respectively) recorded during the sample period.

3) Neutral/Unrelated
- Not terribly difficult. The distinction for this category was something that did not directly wish harm, evoke sympathy, or attempt to deal directly with the issue of the reporters circumstances. These were such as; "What were they doing there?", or "Why weren't they prepared?", or "Bill O'Reilly is a chickenshit", or any other conversation dealing with politics or journalism that had no direct expression of the actual beating or any direct suggestion regarding it. Basically, if it didn't fall into the other categories, it wound up here.

There were a total of 86 substantively neutral or non-relevant posts recorded during the sample period.

4) Attempts at Humor
- This was, of course, a little more dicey as 'humor' is entire subjective. In this instance I made the criteria simple as it was so warranted; If it dealt directly or indirectly with the event or the journalists, but neither condemned nor condoned the beating, and suggested neither in any way that would require the reader to assume intent one way or another, I very generously put it into this category. Things such as; 'Why didn't they say 'we're on the same side!'', or 'They can hardly be called journalists'. While I know very well that we all loves us some witchhunting, I know also very well that DU is a place that will often give a fellow the benefit of the doubt and realize that he may just be making a miguided attempt at humor where the opportunity is present. Very often, we use levity to distract ourselves from the weight of anger, discomfort, or sorrow we might otherwise feel, myself included. So anything that wasn't explicitly mean; 'attempted humor'.

There were a total of 13 such 'attempts at humor' recorded during the sample period.

5) MEAN
- This was not hard to determine at all. If it was negative toward the plight of the Fox News crew at all, it was MEAN.

There were a total of 3 MEAN posts recorded during the sample period. They were, to paraphrase;

- 'I'm having trouble feeling sympathy for them'.
- 'I wish I was watching them get beat up'
- 'Waaaaaah!'

That, my fellow DUer's, was the worst of the worst during the sample period.


Out of 155 individual posts; 3 were mean, 3 might have been mean, and 13 could either have been mean or not with no way to know at the time without reading minds or perhaps asking them.



I know that there should be no condoning of malicious posts, and that DU is a very generous, kind-hearted community, but even without the benefit of the doubt, I can still say I am very proud of the humanity, compassion, and kindess of DUer's to their fellow travellers. I am also proud to be a part of that community... even if I'm kind of dick sometimes.


Thanks for putting up with me.

In your world, Obama is the bad guy. He's the 'corporate stooge' who 'sold us out'. Forget that he's lived up to so many promises... they were meaningless against his backdrop of corporate/elite welfare, illegal prisons, homophobia, and war-mongering. Obviously those are all traits he displays because he has not put an end to them by now.

I agree.

Partly.

That is a frightening world, and I'd really not want to live there. Any world where the Leader of the Free World allowed illegal wars, illegal detention, and spying on American citizens would be a truly frightening one. Scary.

Indeed.

What could possibly be more frightening?


Perhaps a world where the 'Leader of the Free World' was actually interested in doing greater good. Perhaps he'd be interested in re-establishing the rule of law. Maybe he'd want to expand social programs, regulate greedy and ruthless corporations, reign in Wall-Street abuses, establish Universal Health Care, and ensure venues for the advancement of equality and social justice.

What would be so frightening about that?

If he wasn't allowed to do it with the wave of his hand.

My world, the one I live in with everyone else whether they like it or not, has entities in it that are well-established as powerful, voracious, and absolutely ruthless... entities which own and control the media, the politicians, and the very economic landscape.

I hate this world, but it exists. I would very much like to join everyone in the less scary world where the President is the daddy figure who can decide at any time to save us all or not. It would be lovely to believe that just getting the 'right guy' in place would secure salvation for all of us. Then, I could bash him and hold my gaze upon him rather than look at the terrifying things he might have to deal with.

Oh... to be a child and maintain or shed my faith in my father based on what he does for me. Too difficult and frightening for me, as a child, would it be to recognize that my father was beset by forces I could weigh, measure, and judge his strength against. No, as a child I would judge him, regardless of what he might be up against, because such things are too frightening and far beyond my conception.

I am not a child. Therefore my world is a much more frightening place.

It is one where no one man, no matter how high an office he attains, can do everything We the People require to maintain our Democracy.

Therefore, I must grow up... and take responsibility upon myself to make my world a better place. Not only for myself, but for everyone in my town, my state, my country, and my world.

And an awesome responsibility it will be.

Worth the trip;
http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/201010...

http://www.landoverbaptist.org/2010/januar...

Me... I'm taking this very seriously. I'll be on the look-out for these!

Just curious.

Let's say you acquired $5M in disposable cash, whoever you are, what would you DO with it?

No answer is wrong.

I have my own answer too.

I'm quite serious in asking this question.

We have already seen the predictions of scientists on AGW/Climate Change coming to pass 10 or 20 years sooner than expected. Most of we scientifically literate folks understand what that means. It means that the reality is more dire than the predictions.

Many of you denialists are simply scientifically illiterate. While that is no excuse, there exists a chance you'll be honest with your grandchildren when they ask why you let the catastrophe happen. But you who know what you are doing, those of you who are aware that you don't understand, or worse; do understand yet still fight to prevent solutions from being implemented...

What are you going to tell your grandchildren?

When they have to ask you what salmon tasted like, because they will never know, ever, in their lifetimes.

When they have to look at relocation maps as parts of the world are under water.

When they see pictures of the pretty white beasts called 'polar bears' and ask where are they now.

When they ask you how people could have possibly lived in hurricane-wracked Florida, Texas, and Georgia.

When they don't understand that there was a time when more than 50% of children made it to adulthood.

When they ask if the government always had to ration food so scarcely and if they'd ever know what it was like not to be hungry all the time.

When they look at the differences between the world you enjoyed and the one they have to endure...


When you've seen just how all of these things really did come to pass; because many people with far better understanding of the issue than you could grasp desperately tried to keep the worst of the damage from happening, and you did your best to stop them. After you've looked back at the hundreds of millions of dollars the industries that might lose a few quarter's profit spent to keep you ignorant and reassured obstruction was the right thing to do. And AFTER you read a post on the internet so many years ago about what you would tell your grand-children and quietly, smugly, and to yourself thought, "Well, it's not going to happen, so I don't care." because denial is all you have right now...


What are you going to tell your grandchildren about how you helped create the devastation they live with?

Will you pretend you were on the side of the scientists, or will you admit that you were foolish and ignorant?

Either way, you WILL be ashamed.

Don't forget this post.

Ever.

Sadly, I recently went and filtered through the trough you all wallow in. You know… the site you frequently use to exhibit the failure of reason that pervades this nation. I’m not going to comment directly on what I found there, except to say that the proof of your collective character has been put on high-resolution display for history to judge.

It will not do so kindly.

First, I’d like to talk a little about the man;

He wasn’t perfect. He, perhaps above anyone, knew this. He never denied being a human being. He also never treated anyone as though they were ‘below’ him in his public life. You’ve made yourselves judges of a man you knew very little about except for instances in his life whose intimate details could only ever be known by the handful of people closest to him.
It is in that personal place you all have decided to pour your bile, because that is a far less taxing intellectual pursuit than a studious perusal of his life as a public servant.

We all know just how much you all hate being ‘taxed’ and all.

In this reality, regardless of whether you choose to live in it or not, he fought for you. No, maybe not all of you… just the ones that weren’t millionaires. He also fought for business owners, the disabled, college students, cancer patients, the elderly, pregnant women, renters, and children of military men/women. He fought to increase the number of police on the street, and stiffen the penalties for gang-related violence. He voted to increase the minimum wage (don’t laugh yet, that’s going to be part of the joke), create summer jobs for minors, boost supplies for the troops in Iraq+Afghanistan, and allow each of YOU to vote at the tender age of 18. (Not that a few years more experience would have made a difference in your collective case.)

I know, I know… tracking someone’s voting record means you have to do a bunch of research and reading… and that’s an awful lot harder than just listening to what your corporate programmers tell you to believe. So I’ll break it down and give you the punchline;

IF you, or anyone you care about;

- Are not disabled, nor ever will be,
- Have never been granted a student loan,
- Are not a senior citizen,
- Do not own a business with employees,
- Were never pregnant and;
o Hoping to keep your job
o In need of assistance to buy food.
- Didn’t bother to vote until in your 20’s
- Never worked a minimum wage job,
- Have never been, nor intend to be in a union,
- Didn’t study a foreign language in school,
- Are a millionaire,
- Do not, nor ever will have a disabled child,
- Do not, nor ever will have a learning disabled child,
- Have not, nor ever will make use of;
o Attorneys for the indigent
o HEAP or LIHEAP
o Medicaid
o Medicare
o Social Security
- Were not, nor ever will be in the military and in need of child care,
- Have not, nor ever will put a child into a Head Start program.
- Have never had any intention of keeping your personal medical information confidential,
- Were not a soldier in Iraq or Afghanistan.
- Never had or will ever have cancer,
- Never went, or will ever go for a mammogram,
- Never felt those on welfare should ever work,
- Have never, nor ever will take your child to a children’s hospital,
- Don’t work in or care about biodefense technologies,

… Then he really hasn’t done much for you… be as ugly as you want to be.

Now here’s the punchline;

We all (that includes you all) know that 99.99% of you Have needed, or know someone that’s needed the programs that Senator Kennedy was instrumental in bringing about. For us here on DU, it’s a sad kind of entertainment to watch ‘people’ like yourselves disparage someone whose service you have directly or indirectly benefited from… likely when you or a loved one needed it the most. It’s not unlike watching monkeys piss in a pool and then dip in and drink from it.

We’re used to your hypocrisy though, and I know very well that you don’t get what’s so funny here. The reason for that is quite simple;

So you sit at your keyboard, the warrior shit-flingers you are, and cast mindless hatred on someone while you have been or may one day be a person that is disabled, has children or loved ones who are, needs treatment for cancer, wants a better education for yourself or your children, takes your medical privacy seriously, is ever out of work or at a low-paying job, ever signs up for Medicaid, Medicare, or Universal Health insurance once it becomes available (oh, you will), or ever falls into the situations he’s fought to help protect you from, then what you likely do not now, nor ever will understand is;
The Joke is YOU!



Now we just shake our heads and laugh sadly to ourselves… because the punchline is lost on you.

(response copied from here)

Al Franken won. Welcome to Democracy.

When Norm Coleman said that Al Franken should concede the race 'for the sake of the people of Minnesota', you were all behind him. Then, when Coleman refused to concede 'for the sake of Minnesota', you embraced the hypocrisy and stayed right behind him.

Why are you all such hypocrites?

I'll tell you; Because you are not politically inclined, you are, for all intents and purposes; sports fans. Here's a flash for all of you; Politics is not a 'sport'. In sports, you can always agree with the call against the other team while arguing with the same call against your team. That's what a 'fanatic' does after all... they believe their cause is so 'right' that they can break the rules they impose upon everyone else.

But fanatics do not belong in politics.

You cannot handle the layers of interest involved in Politics. You cannot parse the intricacies or nuances or weigh all the disparate factors that come into play when establishing policy. You are trapped in the 'all or nothing', 'with us or against us', 'right/wrong, good/evil, black/white' mentality that abhors complexity.

You do not belong in politics, you belong in a sports arena watching a game, wearing facepaint, drinking beer, and getting into fights over issues that do not ultimately affect the lives of millions of people at a time.

You cheered and jeered when 'your side' broke all the rules, ignored treaties, violated the Constitution, threw off accountability, and plunged the nation into disaster. Well, the politicians that make up 'your team' fully count on idiot sport's fans to support them no matter what they do. That way they can get away with screwing everyone... including their fans. Now we get to watch you guys put your hypocrite hats on and go rabid over even perceived infractions of 'our team'... just like sport's fans.

Well, aside from some of the responses on DU, 'our side' tends to hold their 'team' accountable for it's misdeeds. No doubt you've seen all the railing against Obama by DUer's and thought, in your limited scope of understanding, that it was some sign of 'weakness'. Well, it's not. What it really is is concern that no matter who is in charge, they are serving We The People rather than themselves.

That's because that's what Politics is all about.

So please, get out of politics and dedicate yourselves full time to watching sports. That way you can be the biggest, most fanatical hypocrites on Earth and no one will have to pay the price for it the way we have after eight years of 'your team' running things.

Rah... Fucking... Rah.


{oe}; Thread/DU

Or does Wal-Mart universally discourage solicitation of any kind?

It would be great if someone had any recollection.

I can't take how these dumb asses stand there at their podium and tell all of America that they're willing to sound like illiterate morons just to slight Democrats.

They keep saying "The Democrat Congress".


AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGHHHH!!!!

"Democrat" is a noun, the adjective is "Democratic"!!

And yes, I've talked to idiots who say, "Well, everyone says just 'Republican' whether they mean a guy or a party", and then had to explain to them; ""Republican" is both a noun and an adjective."

This dumbing down of America has to stop. It's driving the bright folks crazy.

Anyone else ever get it?

Wow.

All you self-proclaimed 'Conservatives' that didn't meet a war profiteer you weren't willing to plunge the nation into debt for to line their pockets. All you pro-torture, anti-Constitution, pro-Corporate welfare, 'pro-life'/pro-war, 'I got mine so fuck off', pseudo-Christian, bigoted "Republicans". Every single one of you brainless, talking head, divisive, discord-sowing pundits of the corporatocracy.

Do yourselves a big favor, and for the next 8 years, just Shut. The. Fuck. Up.

But then that wouldn't be nearly as much fun as watching you open your big lying faces up and complaining about every little thing, inventing 'scandals', and spewing bullshit.

Honestly, I can't wait. Hell, the hilarity has already begun with some of you morons already claiming that Obama is in some way responsible for the current financial crisis. I'll tell ya, watching you all become entirely unhinged, and state for the historical record that you're all completely mindless, irrational idiots willing to believe absolute bullshit just because you think politics is a team sport rather than crucial societal management has been entertaining for a long time... but now it'll be even more fun.

Why?

Because for the next 8 years, everytime one of you stinkmonkeys opens your mouth and starts flinging shit, WE GET TO SHOVE ALL YOUR BULLSHIT FROM THE LAST 8 YEARS RIGHT DOWN YOUR SEPTIC THROATS.

Oh the joy of telling you how "UnAmerican" you are for "Not supporting the President".
The hilarity of calling you shitheads "Unpatriotic" for questioning the Executive.
The raving gales that will be had over you morons claiming Obama is in some way incompetent when you ignored EVERY single fuck-up by the King Chimp himself out of some mindless sport's fan mentality will be worth every gasping breath.

And I just can't wait for you idiots to spend the next 8 years proving to history what mendacious, spiteful, childish hypocrites you really are. And because we get to participate in throwing your own bullshit right back at you, a grand time will be had by all.

Well... all of us in the reality-based community, that is. You idiots are pretty much oblivious to concepts like 'hypocrisy' and 'integrity'.

So please... don't shut up. Put on your lip balm, open wide, and give us all the satisfaction of showing your true colors.

Just because the adults are finally in charge again doesn't mean we won't shove your noses in the crap you spew.

And we'll enjoy it too.

My future ex-wife;







I'm sure Len'll lemme borrow her.

Well, one of the many reasons... at least.


So I have a hankering for a late night beer (Bad Doc!), and I go to the corner gas station/Kwik-E-mart. I walk in, and there's a new face there. I say, "So this is the guy that replaced the jack-off?" (Yeah, they know me by now, and the jack-off was a rude little prick).

The regular guy, we'll call him 'Chuck', said, "Yeah, and not a moment too soon... I was gonna kick his ass".

And I believed him. I wanted to kick his ass too.

But I digress.

The new face was a young guy, we'll say 'Jim'. I started to lay into Chuck. I messed with him over how skinny he was and whether he could really 'kick ass' (It's a silly guy thing) and we even wound up outside so I could show him a little Judo. Turns out, the kid was fluid as all get-out and managed to escape being properly planted for di ashi-rai a few times, but I showed him the basics, and even showed him how to throw me in a modified o soto gari. Suffice it to say... he's hooked now. (Trust me, this stuff is WAY fun!)

Jim was watching, so I asked him what training he had.

He said he'd had some training in the army.

Ok, I'm interested.

I ask him about where he trained.

'Baghdad'

"With who?"

"An army master sargeant, a marine sniper, and a pathfinder."

I'd never heard of a 'pathfinder' before, but I assumed it was basically a ranger. He'd also said that the only sargeant he'd ever feared was a 5'3" woman who nearly beat him into the infirmary.

So we talked for a while about training. It's one of the reasons I'm glad I went through some of the stuff that I did... everyone who's ever gone through extreme hand to hand training can bond very quickly with anyone else who has. But what made things special is the fact that I come to DU.

After a whole lot of establishing brotherhood, after finding out that Jim was going to be a door gunner for his third tour (behind a mounted .50 cal in a Blackhawk), Jim said there was "only one thing he was afraid of"...

"Barack Obama as President"

"Really?", I said, "Why is that?"

"Because he wants to cut troop pay by 50%"

Oh... I shit you all not... this boy actually believed this.

I said, "Really... and where did you hear that?"

"Oh, from different places."

I took a deep breath. Chuck, who already knew that I was an awfully informed person, said "Ok, you're about to learn something." to Jim.

I said; "Look, there are a lot of people who want you to hate Obama... and I can't tell you, one way or the other, whether he's good news or bad yet." (yes, if you're smart, you'll go soft on the delivery) "but let me ask you; will any President be able to get away with something like that?"

"Hmmm... I doubt it."

"Well, you're right. Now here's the thing... I, a Republican, have always liked John McCain. He was my guy in 2000, and I didn't like Chimpy. What I've learned in the last few years might surprise you. Do you know..."

"Alright..."

{The following is distilled, but damned accurate...}

"Do you know what the Iraq Afghanistan Veterans for America rated the two candidates for their positions on legislation to help veterans, like you, this past year?"

"No."

"One of the candidates, who voted with the group that represents soldiers, represents you, got an 'A'. The other, who voted against the interests of veterans like yourself, got a 'D'.
I can tell by the look on your face that you already know what I'm about to tell you."

"I think so."

"Yep... even though I still think McCain is a hero, and he's a good guy who would have made an excellent President, he voted against veterans pay and benefits more than Obama did. That's a fact, and I encourage you to look it up for yourself.

"Hmmm..."

(What's funny is that he's playing with a pair of shears while I'm telling him this. I passed those sorts of tests long ago.)

"So", I say, "you were supposed to get a 3% increase in pay this last year... guess who dropped it down to 1.5%?"

"Well, we got 1.8%"

"You were supposed to get 3%"

"Yep... that's right."

"I think you already know what I'm about to say."

"Hmm.", he nodded.


After that, I went back to his service, where he'd been and asked him questions again. I found that he'd been a first volunteer at ground zero, that his family told him he couldn't be a soldier... but his grandfather told him otherwise. I'd found that he didn't learn until his grandfather's funeral that his grandfather was a veteran of Korea and Vietnam. I told him that he had great honor, and after shooting the shit for a little bit about 'the powers that be', and after he 'fessed to being suspicious of the Powers that Be, I told him his grandfather would be proud... "I think he would be.", he said. I shook his hand, thanked him for his service, and said; "I'm certain that he is."


I would not know enough If I did not come here.

After I shook his hand and got in my car, I realized, That is why I come to DU.