... the first thing I do is figure out which of my elementary kids might be gay. Then I figure out which of the "straights" are the best looking and have the most potential for a fat financial portfolio later in life. Then, I spend all year converting the straights to the gay counterpoint I think will make the best couple.

At the end of the year, if I can get 50% of the class gay, I pat myself on the back.

In fact, I've done such a great job at turning straights over to the gay team, The Gay Agenda leaders have bestowed upon me the honorary toaster:


Now, if I were to "go gay" (you know, in fundie speak, people "go gay" because you're "born again, not born a gay" ) I'd bet a much more stylish toaster:


Since I'm a Pastafarian and follow the Flying Spaghetti Monster, this is the toaster I really want (hear that Gay Agenda leaders?)



I shouldn't need to say this, but just in case, this post is dripping in

And his buddy Sniffles is just as bad. Of course, look at how Sniffles poses in his come hither little way:


Of course, look at how Pitter-pat chooses to express himself in photographs, very "come and get it":
[/IMG

Democrats are responsible for the 8 trillion debt...
We don't need that many troops in iraq, they'll happily hand their country over to us...
In counties with only 600 registered voters, bush received 1,600 votes...
You don't have to finish counting all the ballots...
And since there's more white people in affluent areas in red counties, their voting lines are mere minutes and since there are more Black people in lower-economic areas, their voting lines should be just a mere ten hours.

This new math just keep tripping me up, too. Thankfully, we have o'lielly and faux news to clear it up for us.

At this thread http://www.democraticunderground.com/discu... the "Quiver" movement was mentioned.

The word "Quiver" stood out to me because in the extended (but much ignored) part of the family, we have some of these nuts. I followed a provided link and check this out.

http://www.quiverfull.com /


A hard-hitting, scriptually based expose on the emotional, physical, and spritual damage caused by the secular idea of birth control.

If you click on "MORE", you get this:
Birthing God's Mighty Warriors
Rachel Scott

A hard-hitting, scriptually based expose on the emotional, physical, and spritual damage caused by the secular idea of birth control.

We are living in the last days. An anointed generation must come to earth to help prepare the way of the Lord. Many in this generation will be children. Will these chosen children be allowed to come? Satan is trying hard to prevent their conceptions and births. Birthing God’s Mighty Warriors exposes how Satan has used the secular idea of choice and modern medical advances to convince God’s people to limit their family size through birth control and sterilization. Sadly, thousands of couples are suffering emotionally, physically, and spiritually because they have chosen their own path. This book exposes how the enemy is using human reasoning, deception in the media, ideas in pop culture, and lack of knowledge of God’s Word to keep God’s people bound to a worldly mindset. Birthing God’s Mighty Warriors offers hope for restoration through God’s forgiveness. By revealing truth, it challenges young couples to learn from the mistakes of the past so they can be open to bring forth this anointed generation of children.


At the resources page, there are plenty of other nut-filled ideas: http://www.quiverfull.com/resources.php#r1...

The Birth Dearth
What Happens When People in Free Countries Don't Have Enough Babies
Ben J. Wattenberg



The Way Home
Beyond Feminism, Back to Reality
Mary Pride


Children: Blessing or Burden
Exploding the Myth of the Small Family
Max Heine


Letting God Plan Your Family
Samuel A. Owen, Jr.



Does the Birth Control Pill Cause Abortions?
5th Edition Randy Alcorn

"The Pill is used by about fourteen million American women each year and sixty million women internationally. Thus, even an infinitesimally low portion (say one-hundredth of one percent) of 780 million Pill cycles per year globally could represent tens of thousands of unborn children lost to this form of chemical abortion annually. How many young lives have to be jeopardized for prolife believers to question the ethics of using the Pill? This is an issue with profound moral implications for those believing we are called to protect the lives of children."

Randy Alcorn's booklet, Does the Birth Control Pill Cause Abortions? is the 5th Edition, revised in 2000, complete with endorsements from ten physicians. You can download this from our website free. The published booklet is more suitable as a permanent reference or to give away.



And then there is the discussion board:
http://www.quiverfull.com/clips.php/id24 /

Help! Doctor says c-section!
Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 20:34:37 EDT
From:
Subject: help..doctor says c-section.

Hello, my name is . I have posted a few times before. My husband and
I have a dd who is 13 months old and a son that is due on June 8 (so they
say). My post is for advice and prayer. I am currently 38 weeks and am very
big. The baby is measuring 43! My cervix is "unfavorable" meaning that it
is still completely closed and thick. I had a c-section with my first child
because she was measuring big. Her final ultrasound said she was a little
over 10 lb. well, she was only 8.2 at birth. Now, my doctor is concerned
that this baby will be too big for delivery too. I really don't want another
unnecessary c-section. I am scheduled to have an ultrasound Tuesday and then
I am supposed to see the doctor again. I believe that our God is one who
loves impossible obstacles so our prayer is that I'd be in labor before they
even have a chance to do the ultrasound. I am feeling very discouraged and
anxious about this situation because I know that if I do have a second
c-section I will most likely never be allowed to try a VBAC if God blesses us
again. I would love to hear from anyone who has any advice for my husband
and me. If not, please pray that our son would make his appearance feel free
to email me privately if you like.

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Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 22:30:42 -0400
From: Roger & JaneAnn
Subject: Why can't women deliver their babies?

,

I know this isn't your doing at all, but why would they tell you that you can't deliver your babies? If I understood your post, you weren't even allowed to try to deliver your first and now they don't want to even let you try to deliver your second? I was so close to this situation and am thankful that things in my situation worked out the way they did. My first was premature, born at 5 pounds and 9 ounces. The doctor told me that it was a good thing that she was premature because I am "too small down there to deliver anything bigger myself" and had I gone to term I would have had a c-section. My second, 6 years later was born after a swift start to labor in the driveway of my grandma's house....he was 7 pounds and 9 ounces and I didn't even tear!! My third and fourth have gotten a little bigger each, although not all the way to 8 pounds without even tearing.

What criteria do these doctors use to figure out if we are 'too small' and unable to deliver our babies, especially the first? A lady at church, pregnant with #4 is already scheduled for her fourth c-section because she 'can't' deliver vaginally. She hasn't even ever gone into labor because of her 'big' babies (8 pounders).

Also, when I went into premature labor with #1, the ultrasound said that she would be lucky to come out at 4 pounds. I have heard that they can be off by as much as 2 pounds, especially in the later weeks of pregnancy.

Take care and prayers to you and your baby!

Jane Ann

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Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 22:33:19 -0500
From: "David Crank"
Subject: Response to: help..doctor says c-section.

First let me say - I am NOT a doctor. I am just a husband and father whose
wife experienced 4 c-sections before having 2 home VBACs, and who has read a
lot about cesareans, VBACs, home births, etc. Hopefully Doctor John can
respond to your question with his professional opinion. I can't speak to
issue of how concerning your present uterine measurement is or the
assessment of the present condition of your cervix. I will confine my
comments to the issue of having another C-section because the "baby is too
large."

I think many doctors are overly concerned about large babies in general, and
even more so with VBACs. Do babies truly grow too big for delivery? I
suppose if a woman truly has a seriously malformed pelvis for some reason
(i.e. a previous injury), then there truly may be a problem where the baby
cannot pass through. Absent a clear indication that this is the case, our
bias (Mine & Lori's) would be to wait for the baby to come naturally, in its
own time, however big - unless there was strong indication of distress or
danger to the baby.

I've read many times about the inability of doctors to accurately judge that
a baby is too big. Even X-rays do not tell the true story because of the
impact of pregnancy hormones in loosening up connective tissue and how the
pelvis can spread wider during delivery in a squatting position (recently
learned that a woman's pelvis can even separate a bit sometimes when
required).Our first doctor "proved" to us by X-Ray that our first baby was
too large for my wife's pelvis. His conclusion was later proven to be
totally false.

With VBAC's, some doctors are very concerned about uterine rupture. There is
a risk of catastrophic uterine rupture even without prior cesareans. Though
the risk is believed to be higher with VBACs, it has still proved to be very
small. Will a larger baby increase the risk? Maybe a little, but is it
really a significant amount? I don't think so. I read of one 12 lb + baby
born by VBAC as well as numerous others well above 10 lbs. Is a large baby
truly a legitimate contra-indicator for a VBAC? I think most midwives with
extensive VBAC experience would say "NO"!

Research VBACs on the Web for yourself. Perhaps you should get another
doctor's opinion. Don't be pushed into another cesarean unnecessarily. After
the first four c-sections, our approach has been not to willingly accept
another section until it is a proven necessity (in our view - circumstances
like being very late, large baby, extremely long and slow labor, etc., did
not meet this criteria -- things like:a baby stuck in the transverse lie
position, evidence of true fetal distress best addressed by c-section, or a
true inability to deliver the baby - would meet our criteria).

In Christ,
David Crank
www.UnlessTheLordMagazine.com

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Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 23:57:10 EDT
From:
Subject: Re:Subject: help..doctor says c-section.

Hi, I am new to the post and just became Quiver full minded but felt I should
respond. I was told on the last 3 of my 4 pregnancies that I would have a
c-section. Well 4 pregnancies later I have not had one. If you are going to
the hospital to deliver, stick to your guns. There will be tons of equipment
to monitor you and you DO have God on your side. I told the Dr. I wanted to
do everything possible to have a natural birth, I would only do the c-section
if it looked as if the baby or my life was at risk. The Dr. respected that
and we proceeded. On the last birth the Dr. kept insisting that I was
probably going to have the c-section(while I was in labor) because there was
meconium in the waters (baby stool) and he was afraid the baby was at risk
for breathing complications etc. Needless to say she was born with
absolutely no complications and the Dr. was not able to get into the room in
time because she came so fast. I hope this helps and encourages you. I know I
did not have any previous c-sections, but I will share this one last bit of
encouragement.... With my third child at 4 1/2 months pregnant they had to
cut me open because I had a mass on the outside of my uterus that they
thought was cancer, it just turned out to be a fibroid. They said because the
incision was so big(about 6 inches across my abdomen) I would almost
definently have to have a c-section because my muscles would not be strong
enough to go through labor. They went ahead and scheduled me for the
c-section because he had also turned breech. I went in the morning of January
2nd with strong convictions that this baby was to be born naturally. I said
please do one last sonogram because I really want to still go for a vaginal
birth, the Dr. agreed and right before our eyes on the sonogram screen he
turned into the correct postion! Yes, they did have to break my waters, but,
he was born 7 hrs later and was just beautiful! The icing on the cake was
they told me that I would have to have part of my uterus removed because of
the fibroid. I went in 6 weeks later and it was still about 8 sonometers, I
knew in my heart God wanted me to have more children and as I said earlier I
have 4... the rest is HIStory as He is still writing it. I will be praying
for you. God Bless you so much, and I really hope this helps.

Michelle Hanna....mommy to 4


Ot, how about this little gem

What about Natural Family Planning?
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 09:57:14 -0500
From: William
Subject: Natural Family Planning

I thought I saw on the QF web page that members are against "Natural Family
Planning" or timing cycles and testing other bodily changes. Is this so? I
am in opposition to contraceptives (or at least God has been dealing with me
on this one) but I want further information about the opposition to "Natural
Family Planning".

William
Father of 3 "Glory Babies" and Christopher(5), Emily(21 months), Mason (6
months)

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Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 22:49:05 -0500
From: "David Crank"
Subject: QF & Natural Family Planning

To William (& others who may have a similar question),

Yes, I would say that most of us on this list are not in favor of "natural
family planning". Our convictions relate to much more that just opposing
contraceptives. I'll try to briefly explain...

There are many different reasons for leaving conception in God's hands. Just
to briefly touch on some of the major ones:

1) God is far better at planning our families than we are. He knows what the
future holds (when or if you will actually be able to conceive, how things
will change over the 9 months of pregnancy, and the whole future of the
child to be born). He alone knows the perfect time and the "perfect" number.
We are to trust God to provide for us in the necessities of life, can we not
trust Him with this part of our lives as well?

2) God commanded us to be fruitful and multiply. No where did He withdraw
this command or give any indication that we should try to limit our number
of children or "time" them. His commands concerning marriage (i.e. 1 Cor 7)
tend to come in conflict even with "natural" family planning methods. God's
commands to the Israelites concerning when a husband and wife were not to
come together, appear designed to maximize the opportunities for conception.

3) The Christian church and its leaders universally condemned birth control
prior to the 20th century (and many well into the 1st half of the 20th
century). Read some of the writings of Luther, Calvin and many others,
besides the Catholic Popes - ALL were in agreement on this matter. Their
reasons for opposition to birth control were not just due to "artificial"
methods. They were opposed to the idea of Christians trying to limit their
families and taking this matter out of God's hands! The modern acceptance of
birth control is the direct result of women's rights activists, especially
Margaret Sanger, who were very ungodly, opposed to Christian morality, and
advocated abortion as just another acceptable method of birth control.

4) Notice what the Bible says about conception - how often we read of God
opening and closing the womb. Look at what the Old Testament saints
believed - that conception was a matter under God's control. Conception was
not seen as just a matter of chance and when a man and woman came together.

5) If children are truly great blessings, as God's word says they are, why
would we WANT to limit our blessings? Even attempting to delay "blessings"
for a couple of years may sometimes result in preventing any future
blessings (we do not know how long fertility will last). When we see
children a bit more as God sees them - new precious lives to love and to
love us, that can be raised to be bring glory to God - we want as many as He
will give us, even if that means having a child at a very difficult time or
having one that requires a lot of extra care. Look at the attitudes towards
children portrayed by the Old Testament saints (Sarah, Rebekah, Leah &
Rachel, Hannah, ...). Look at the folks singled out for mention in the Bible
for how God had blessed them with a very large family.

Well, this topic could fill a number of books (and has filled a number of
good books - A Full Quiver, by Rick and Jan Hess, is one of the best in my
opinion). Hopefully the above is enough to at least give you a good start on
further considering this issue. You can also read more, in an article
focused primarily on point 5 above, at the following link:
http://unlessthelordmagazine.com/articles/... .


In Christ,
David Crank
www.UnlessTheLordMagazine.com

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Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 09:33:34 -0700
From: "Shoucair"
Subject: Natural Family Planning

William,

I guess that my opposition to Natural Family Planning is that it is still a way for me to
think that I can better plan my life than God can. I am now expecting my 8th child and I am
wondering how many I would have if each had been planned by me with all of my worldly
requirements for an appropriate time. I may not have had more than one, yet God's timing is
perfect. I don't have any regrets. He hasn't made any mistakes yet. Just remember that God
is not trying to curse you. He blesses you with children. Also remember that, although He
gives us wisdom, we don't have the wisdom He has.

Peggy

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Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 07:06:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mike Southerland
Subject: Re: NFP

There was a question about "What's wrong with Natural Family Planning?" My answer is that I was just where you are as recently as last year in wondering about this. What the Lord has shown me through reading, and on this list, is that we should welcome all the blessings that the Lord will give us. It is absolutely true that if you are determined to prevent pregnancy, the only moral way to do it would be to prevent the sperm and the egg from coming together. NFP handles this nicely, without the danger of abortion typically caused by the pill and other chemical or mechanical methods. However, we must examine our hearts to see why we would want to prevent the Lord from blessing us again. To use any method to prevent pregnancy is to state implicitly or explicitly that you don't "want" a child. I'm finding that the road from BC to NFP to QF is a logical sequence that the Lord tends to bring many of us down. It was the physical hazards of BC that led most of us to NFP. It is mostly spiritual (for me anyway) reasons that have led me and my wife from NFP to QF.

Mike Southerland
husband to Sheri, Daddy to Brittney (8), Michael III (6), Brianna (4), and Justin (8 months)

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Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 19:54:03 -0600
From: "Kim Dasen" <
Subject: natural family planning

Hi,

My issue with natural family planning is that in the scriptures we are told not to withold
our bodies from one another (man and wife obviously), except by agreement for times of
prayer. So, my issue I guess is that there is a scripture concerning "planned abstinence",
and it says ONLY for times of prayer. God created women to be most, um, sexually interested
during their fertile time, so to plan every month to abstain, is, well, it would seem,
non-scriptural...... So, on top of trying to refuse God's blessings, we would be
intentionally going against a very direct scripture verse.....
Any input from anybody else on this is welcome...... I'm not very good at expressing myself
sometimes....

In Him,
Kim





Quiver Articles, which are too scary to be funny

http://www.quiverfull.com/articles.php/id2... /
Children Add Up To Asset For Challenger
(A Quiver-full family has the husband running for political office. They are a loony bunch.)

<snip>

She had a desperate, blunt conversation with God one day while standing amid piles of laundry--and this is back when she only had seven children.

"I love 'em, but I think I'm going to go crazy!" she cried to the Lord.

"It was a sacrifice to praise God at that point," Michelle says. But she did. She started singing a song to honor him. Within a week, the children's piano teacher, Ruth Anita Anderson, whom they've come to call Nana, made an offer to help with the laundry.

<snip>

The Duggars consider the Bible something of an owner's manual, a how-to for life. They sometimes employ "time outs" to discipline their children, but they also think the Bible teaches parents to spank and even instructs on how to do it.

The children and Michelle recite a new Bible passage each morning, and they have actions to go with the words. For instance, when reciting Exodus 20, verses 1-17, the children run a finger along their necks in a quick swipe, as if killing themselves, as they read the passage, "Thou shall not kill."





In addition, there is plenty of inaccuracies and downright lies about birth control at this link
http://www.quiverfull.com/birthcontrol.php


The links page is more sites full of crazy shit for crazy people.
http://www.quiverfull.com/links.php

Above Rubies
http://www.aboverubies.org/frameset.asp?w=...
A magazine to encourage women in their high calling as wives, mothers, and homemakers. Its purpose is to uphold and strengthen family life and to raise the standard of God's truth in the nation.


Open Arms Magazine
http://www.openarmsmagazine.com /
Open Arms Magazine is dedicated to serving and encouraging mothers in the many facets of staying at home and raising a family.


The Patriarch's Path
http://www.patriarchspath.org /
A site published by James and Stacy McDonald, giving insight on issues such as courtship, marriage, modesty, what it means to be a keeper at home, patriarchal issues, the blessing of children, child training, and homeschooling


The Case Against Birth Control
http://home.att.net/~nathan.wilson/brthcnt...
by Nate Wilson
From the amount of flame mail I've gotten since posting this article, I'm quite aware that most Christians today disagree with the position of this paper. I'm not out to condemn anybody, I'm not wanting to get involved in a controversy, and I don't want to unnecessarily make a big issue of birth control. This paper is merely intended to be a summary of several books on the subject, and my intent is to provide a balance to the many articles on the Internet offered in favor of birth control. My concern is that too many Christian couples hear the arguments in favor of birth control and make their decision without ever having heard that there might be reasons not to practice birth control. I offer the following arguments so that Christian couples can make more intelligent, informed decisions concerning birth control (hereafter "B.C."). Once a couple makes an informed decision - whether for or against B.C. - this paper has served its purpose in providing part of the information needed to make that decision. Whether or not you practice birth control is YOUR decision, not mine for you, so please don't worry about what I think. What matters is that you can stand before God with a clear conscience on this issue.

God is Sovereign in birth. He opens & shuts the womb; He blesses with children.
The Bible nowhere encourages B.C., but everywhere condones fertility!
Having children is part of the whole picture of a family:
All forms of B.C. increase abortion.
Biblical support is missing:
It's inconvenient
Health problems
OBJECTIONS HOLD NO WATER
Overpopulation
Multiplying like rabbits The average number of children borne by monogamous couples not practicing birth control is only five!
Cost basically, God will provide
The myth that children of large families are less intelligent is sheer bunk
Stewardship
Technology is good.
What if I have health problems?
Bible only for Agrarian community
Sex only for Procreation?
A sovereign God can override B.C

CONCLUSION
Given the Bible's pro-children stance and its anti-infertility stance, given the fact that Christians have historically not practiced birth control, given the problems caused by birth control, and given the fact that most reasons for using birth control are not valid, it is a reasonable and good conclusion for a Christian to not practice birth control.






So? This kind of nonsense only pertains to the Crazy 20% who always side right, no matter what the question. Well, those Crazy 20% are working hard to increase the population. We have a few of the Crazy 20% in the family, and let me tell you, they are serious about this and are constantly recruiting new craxkpots into their covens of insanity.

brains. It also assumes that Black people will vote for color before their own self-interests. People were not blind to katrina. They are not blind to the historical injustices to be found in education, employment and society. They also know when they are being set up.

I feel sorry for the likes of Michael Steel, Lynn Swann, and Keith Butler because they are allowing themselves to be used and are forgetting who they are and the betterment of their own. They are siding with an administration that blocked many Black people from voting and has increased the divisions in this country- including the division of color and of class.

I hardly think the Democratic party has to worry. Maybe I'm incorrect with this assumption.

Fight On! For old 'SC! Our men Fight On! to victory!



Our alma mater's dear! It's up to you!



Fight On! and win for old 'SC!


Fight On! to victory! Fight On!





Ok, I know. A bit much. I received my BA and my MA from there. What can I say?

And all those who have lost their jobs overseas or who are discriminated against and have trouble finding employment in *'s Amerikkka will somehow manage to pull through without the shrub-lovers. In fact, i suggest we'd have a healthier and more productive country.

And with that, Mr. kt and I are off to enjoy what is left of America before the repubots completely destroy all we have ever known and loved.

20 posts and already whining. I do believe we have a drive by!




Image stolen from Mayberry Machiavelli from this thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discu...

http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/imag...

311 Singer Nick Hexum Hits The Road To Send Bush On His Way
10.04.2004

Hexums For Kerry Tour marks vocalist's first time on the road without 311.

311 singer Nick Hexum is following his own advice: Don't stay home.

Stirred by his dissatisfaction with President George W. Bush, Hexum has scheduled a tour of swing states with his brother, singer Zack Hexum, and aptly titled it the Hexums for Kerry Tour.


"If Bush wins, it'll be a sad day, but I'll at least know we did our best towards a plan for world peace." — 311's Nick Hexum


Stuff from my high school days, but politically themed," Nick said. "We're learning 'Clampdown' from London Calling, which is about fascism, and about how raging patriotism can lead toward terrible things. We're doing XTC's 'Earn Enough for Us,' which is about the middle class having so much trouble. Then we'll also do 'Amber,' because we want it to be an enjoyable music experience."

"The reason I wanted to get involved is because if Bush is re-elected, it's basically saying what he did was OK, to lead a country into war based on a falsified document that he knew was not true," Hexum said. "If he's reelected, that makes us more of a target. If we get Kerry in there, it says, 'Look, this is a new America. We're going to be hard on terrorists when we know they're terrorists.' "

Nick has little tolerance for Republicans who argue that Bush has saved the Iraqi people from a tyrannical dictator who killed 5,000 Kurds.

"First of all, we've just killed about 15,000 of them doing this," the singer said. "Second of all, if you look at tyrants around the world, there's much more urgent civil-rights crises. If that was our concern, we'd be in Sudan, Burma, North Korea, whatever. The truth is, they'll deny it to the end, but the oil has to have something to do with it. We don't care about other places where people are being oppressed unless they've got something we want."



I think I've found my new best friend!

to public school because the power of evil there is too strong for her children.

I suggested perhaps she didn't raise her children very strong in their values if being around people could change everything they were raised to believe.

Democracy requires an informed population. If people believe this shit, then it's clear- democracy can't thrive here any longer.

Free speech at a conservative, "christian" college. Surprise lightening didn't strike.

While Bush got the cold shoulder, former President Clinton was welcomed as if he still held the office.

Maybe this is because Clinton didn't ignore the obvious and DROWN poor people.





I guess, according to some, this African-America infant deserves to drown, too, because she was unable to get out.


People like the fool who works against his own people are just pure