and lurkers. Good in-site there Talking Dog. I think most of our male posters here are 'in touch' with their feminine side because I see a lot of global thinking in many of the posts on this thread.

I found your examples amusing and sad. I saw that dichotomy of responsibility in both my Mom and Dad's family. I consider both as matriarchal. And frankly, both Grandpas would be the first to admit that they made their biggest mistake not taking their wives council. My maternal Grandparents would discuss matters on long private walks-my paternal Grandparents would discuss thing at the end of the day as they were getting ready for bed. I was so use to having a say that this whole macho thing took me a while to get a handle. Cost me 2 good relationships. My hubby now is Indian and thinks in a totally different way-very global(tribal)and that was a very big breath of fresh air for me. It is a continual give and take, but the bottom line is the care of the household and what is best for the family.

I also find the patriarchy of most churches stifling and it was a while before I found one that I felt welcomed. Most church leaders are quick to say "Wives, submit to your husbands"... (Ephesians 5:21-22)but slow to mention the other "Husbands, love your wives like Christ loved the church and gave himself for her... (Ephesians 5:25). Those words were meant to raise the status of women, not to be twisted to further suppress them. Honestly, it is a good thing to introduce women in the ranks of the church. The last vestiges of male hold overs are politics and big business and goodness know we need more balanced thinking in those areas

Happy hunting and watch out for the bears.