It simply means your supporters have more money to throw around. Obama has outspent Clinton 4 to 1 and they are still not that far apart in total votes.....not that far apart at all if you think about how much money Obama has spent on advertising telling us how wonderful he is. Both candidates have shattered all the records for fundraising this past year or so.

So because Clinton appeals more to the blue collar workers who are hurting hard for money and can't afford to spend as much to support their candidate, you crow about how much Obama has raised and how much he has spent.

It reminds me of playground taunts similar to 'My daddy makes more money than your daddy'.......very telling indeed.

....just a few of the lovely descriptive terms pulled off page 1 of GDP.

Now tell me again how Democrats are the party that embraces women.

Shame on you. Shame on you.

...for winning against the GOP......and you can rant and rave at me all you want about how wonderful Obama is and how he's going to change things.

But the facts are he is unproven, he's all talk and very little action. He's been handled with kid gloves for almost the entire primary season. If he's criticized on any level then the naysayer, whoever it may be is charged with alienating the youth vote, race baiting, not being for hope and change, etc.

America loves a hero......and after 8 years of Bush people are desperate to put their faith in someone who promises them hope and change.......regardless of the fact that someone has no plans of substance on how he will accomplish much less what he will accomplish. I honestly think Americans can't see past the glow of their tv screens and the Oprah glitz that has surrounded Obama this campaign season. I hear mothers gush that their 12 year old daughter is fired up over Obama........what the hell? Since when do adults take advice from 12 year old children on who to vote for? I doubt seriously any 12 year old understands Economic Policy, Foreign Policy or the debate on National Health Care for everyone......I suppose a 12 year olds' advice is ok though when even the candidate's most ardent fans can't hold a discussion on exactly what their candidate's policy and position is on much of any issue.

This campaign season I have witnessed supposed Democrats lambaste how horrible it all was under Bill Clinton's presidency in their attempts at re-writing history....... Well ya know what? They are wrong.......damned wrong and they should be ashamed at their pathetic attempts to smear a fellow Democrat with the lies and bullshit they spout. Over and over again, a rational person will talk and post of all Bill Clinton's accomplishments whilst President and it has all fallen on deaf ears, because to believe Clinton was a good President for America might put a niggling doubt in the back of an Obamamaniac's mind concerning their own candidate.

This campaign season I have seen the race card played left and right......but it was played and used by Obama, not the Clintons.......and if Obama was accused of playing the race card, he and his supporters then became the victims of 'those horrible racists'. Just total bullshit people. Bill and Hillary Clinton are not now and never have been racist and in fact have been highly supported by the African American community all across America until this campaign season.

Race has been tiptoed around and around this entire campaign season. When a candidate is getting 80 to 90 percent of the black vote then that fact means people are voting due to race. Yes I said it. Flame me, but it's an ugly secret that we all know is happening but we can't mention it because it wouldn't be politically correct.......we can however, bring up the fact over and over again that some women support Hillary in part because she is a woman........and it's perfectly acceptable to attack them for such thinking.

All campaign season I have seen an extraordinary woman slandered, slammed, mauled and verbally spit on by 'fellow' Democrats, the press, political hacks, etc....and through it all she has kept her head high, spoken on her knowledge of the issues that face us and this country and done it all while under fire from people so afraid she will do a damn good job that for whatever reason it enrages them beyond rational thought.

Let me just close with a some advice.......if you thought the campaign season up until now has been ugly then you had better fasten your seat belts, because the GOP Supreme Ugly Machine is starting to set it's sights on Obama and they will not handle him with the kid gloves we Democrats have. They are damned good at what they do best and what they do best is to cut Democrats off at the knees and throw salt on their wounds while they bleed to death. We know this because we have been seeing it happen for 8 long years.

There's only one Democrat I know who is brave enough, savvy enough and has the chutzpah to take on the GOP and win and that Democrat is Hillary. Your choice......and if you chose wrong.......then I freely expect to tell you "I told you so and you wouldn't listen".

So I'm sure that pegs me as a Clinton Supporter. Deal with it.

Pardon me if I don't buy into the 'hoping for change' myth......and excuse me if I don't get chills down my spine when Obama speaks or when teenage children advise me to vote Obama because they know he's the one.

Being able to give charismatic speeches that fill your followers with 'hope for change' does not a hero make. Unfortunately with a generation fed on Hollywood, MTV and text messages, the soundbites are what have educated many.

So I'm cynical, I'm jaded and I'm pissed off. I don't really want a feel good candidate that wants to 'bring us all together'. I fucking want a candidate who will fucking kick some Republican Ass as soon as she is nominated. I want someone who can hold her own when the big boys start lobbing the shitballs in her direction..........just as she has stood up to the caca from her own kind for months on end now. I want someone who can stand up to the criticism and STILL stay on the issues....the Economy, health care, Foreign Policy for grown-ups.

I don't want to get along with all the assholes that got America into this mess in the first place and if that attitude makes me a has been old fuddy duddy according to the mainstream press and Obama then they can fuck off in tandem.

I have sat and watched so much bullshit come down the pike for the past 7 years that there's no way I want to kiss and make up and feel good about nothing in America. You don't like my anger? Then you can fuck off too.

This is not high school or college. This is real world, down and dirty politcs and if you want to beleive that anyone is going to change the system so radically that we will live in cities paved with gold and all love one another is beyond being naive....it's downright dangerous.

Wanting a 'love in' when we are clearly going into the biggest fight we have had yet is asking to lose. I'm not reaching out to any god damned Republicans for nothing. No way.

The world as we know it is not ending anytime soon. The doom and gloom 'we' are projecting if who we want to get the nomination fails to get it is nothing but fruitless breast beating and pointless gnashing of teeth.

Have a little faith. Politics during Primary Season can be ugly and divisive......but Primary Season eventually ends and we get down to business. Kicking the current party in residence to the curb and hopefully starting to right more than a few wrongs that have been done in the false name of patriotism and retribution for 9/11.

It's been a long time coming, but there is light at the end of the tunnel. I personally can't wait until Primary Season is over and done with and we can start kicking some Republican asses on the Issues

I mean come on..I can handle debates on the issues and even the mudslinging we have had...but some people are saying that Obama is the new JFK. It's time to speak up on this.

To be blunt, Obama is no JFK. I will give Obama credit for being a pretty good orator....but, people need to understand that a good orator does not necessarily equate to being the best politician for the job. Evangelists are great orators and they give people chills but I would hope that most of us are sensible enough to see through the hype and look closely at the substance.

I realize that America loves a hero. And Obama certainly seems to fit that mold......at least to many younger voters....and a few older ones as well who seem to be star struck. I know he's for change........but, my question to you is..........what person in his/her right mind in the US isn't for change at this point? And what exactly is this change he wants to give us so badly? I've not heard or seen this expounded upon in any substantial way.

I hear a lot of comparisons to the young and seemingly inexperienced Kennedy. But people, Kennedy was far from inexperienced. He had been groomed most of his life to become President….first, in his brother’s shadow and then when Joe was killed, he moved to the first position.

Kennedy was a WWII veteran. His father had been Ambassador to the UK leading up to WWII and JFK saw first hand the lead up to war. He formulated what would later become his Foreign Policy when he traveled the world as a US Congressman & later as a US Senator.

But Kennedy is also a myth. One that his premature death perpetuated. His assassination in office gave him that hero’s death that wiped away all his flaws….and Kennedy did have flaws……the Bay of Pigs was a pretty damned big mistake. His escalation of the Vietnam War (sorry Police Action) is another. He wasn’t perfect. He made mistakes. But the golden aura of his name seems to carry so much promise that over 40 years after his death we are still looking for someone to fill his shoes.

I happen to think that Ted and Caroline are wishful thinkers when comparing Obama to JFK. Other than being relatives of JFK what qualifies them to name the successor to Camelot? You may argue that his own brother and his daughter know best…….but, I say the choice is to be made by the people of America (and probably Hollywood). It also doesn’t hurt that Ted Sorenson is writing speeches for Obama. No wonder he reminds people of JFK. You can have politicians, relatives of politicians and Hollywood Stars endorse you until the cows come home……….every candidate can claim endorsements by the famous and the not so famous, by the wise and not so wise…..does someone else telling you how to vote make your decision for you? If it does than there is no hope.

You need to understand that Ted Kennedy has his own agenda in endorsing Obama. He’s not happy with what he sees as the Clinton’s control of the Democratic Party. When they ‘took control’ Kennedy was the ESTABLISHMENT that so many Obama supporters say they are so against today.

Kerry’s agenda is similar. He’s still pissed that the Clinton’s didn’t help him as much as they could in 2004 and they sat back and let him lose so Hillary could win in 2008. I have news for Kerry. He lost 2004 because he was weak. He can’t blame his 2004 loss on the Clintons. He needs to take a good long look at himself in the mirror to see why he lost the election.

You as voters need to research the substance of each candidate. What has formulated where they stand on the issues. Their experience. Their educational background. Their political alliances and feuds. Their political and their personal history and how they arrived at where they are today.

I knew about it too and the ONE SINGLE REASON I didn't mention it here was because I knew if I did then some Obama supporters would start hollering racism as soon as I mentioned it.

You know how I found out about that tidbit of info on Jackson? I was reading The Guardian.....an actual real, non-tabloid newspaper in the UK.......and there it was for all to see. Nothing racist about it at all..........had it been a white candidate I wouldn't have hesitated to post the 54% Jackson to Gore's 19%. The first thing that struck me when I read it was the high percentage lead Jackson took aver Gore. I didn't think black or white at all until I realized I shouldn't use it here in a discussion since Jackson was Black. And you know what? That's not right. I'm tired of tiptoeing around my comments so that others here don't misinterpret everything I say as having a hidden agenda.

One point I would like to make though is it wasn't a primary that Jackson won in 1988. It was the SC Caucus. SC Democrats if memory serves were still caucusing then. Not that any of it makes any difference to me. Like I said the one thing that struck me initially was the 54%. To me, that just means that the Democratic winner in SC does not necessarily go on to take the WH....nothing sinister in it.........nothing racist in.......just an observation.

Some people really do need to calm down and quit seeing messages that just aren't there.

ETA a link to the article I read:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections08/st...

I know there is a lot of passion regarding politics here at DU. Most of us all feel strongly about one candidate or another. That's a good thing. It means we still care. After 8 years of bedlam and horror, we still get up every morning and we still give a damn about what happens to America and in America. We all think about others besides me, myself and I.

We all care about social issues, women's rights, civil rights, health care, America's position on the world stage, Iraq, Iran, the mid-east, etc. WE ALL STILL GIVE A DAMN.

Right now we have 3 very good candidates for President. Despite all the negativity, the mud-slinging, the hurt feelings, the high drama of the day........they are ALL THREE excellent candidates to hold the office.

Despite what many of you think, the world will not end if the candidate you favor most does not get the nomination. Just because you don't agree with a candidate on every issue should not be the last straw with you if they get the nomination. .....I know, I know, I know.........that you are passionate about certain things and they mean very much to you and your future and perhaps America's future. But sometimes what you want the most does take a while.....and sometimes you don't ever get it, yet you do go on. Sometimes things work out anyway and sometimes they don't. That's life people.

My point is this. Life is not going to come to an end and things are not going to go dark if the Democrat you want most to win the nomination doesn't get there. Hysterics and spreading the latest rumor du jour is not going to help. In fact it will probably make things worse.

Calm down. Celebrate that we are going to kick ass come November with whoever we put up.......because I still believe..............despite what happened in 2000 and 2004 that America eventually wakes up and realizes that we need to get started in a new direction.......and people Clinton, Edwards or Obama can either one take us in a better direction than anyone the Republicans put up. I think America already knows that. We need to start getting some positive things going because no matter what Democrat wins.......change is coming...for the better.

"I'm not going to play anymore. I don't like you."

Sound familiar? It sounds like some children that have yet to grow up. The reality is........life is full of compromises. Sometimes they can be hard compromises (at least it seems so to you). If you continue to be rigid and not give and take then you will never get what you want out of life.

"a strapping macho dude with a handlebar mustache"...........tell me, what do you look like? And why is your interpretation of this man's appearance relevant?

"Several Clinton supporters, who had clearly been there for a while were standing with several signs in the corner of the parking lot."..........and you have proof of this? and even if you did have proof of this I know of no rules to prevent volunteers from showing up in a parking lot a few minutes before starting time.

"He confided in us that they'd gotten emailed instructions from the campaign about how to discourage voters who were not for Clinton.".........translation......he told us that they had been given suggestions on how to possibly help undecided voters to chose their candidate.

"I told him I was impressed with the operation they had going there and he proudly claimed that they had over a hundred pledged supporters for Sen. Clinton. My fellow volunteer and I quickly realized that things were not going to go well for us, given the difficulty we had nailing down the dozen or so pledges we had in the previous day we'd spent canvassing."..........translation.........more people like Clinton than Obama.

"He said that since they expected up to 200 people that we should agree, if it got to that number, to not let any more people in even if it was prior to 12. Fire codes, you know. We told him that we were volunteers and could make no such agreements. We were going to follow the rules as stated."......."It became a melee because the space was small and some problems ensued, despite Precinct Chair's vigilance. "............just a thought.....gee you might have oughta listened to the Clinton guy who tried to warn you that there was a shitload of people coming and knew there would be safety issues.

"They were just these slips of paper where they'd check off their preferred candidate, and second choice if applicable. We discovered that a few undecided voters had been told to mark their first choice as "uncommitted". It was before noon and these were not official ballots but the facilitators refused to give them new ones and told them they were stuck with uncommitted as a first choice. Also, some Edwards and Obama supporters said they were told that they had to leave if their candidate wasn't viable. We assured them that they could make a second choice if that was the case. We checked with the chair and the facilitators and they said they told no one any such thing.".....and it's Clinton's supporters fault that there "were these slips of papers"......or perhaps this was what was handed out by the caucus organizers? And if the facilitators refused to give them new ones then that's AGAIN not a Clinton supporter's fault now is it? And as to your insinuation regarding 2nd choices.........do you have proof of this allegation or are you just spouting shit as you think it up?

"In the caucus, Sen. Clinton ended up with slightly more than half the roughly 120 caucusers. Edwards got about 40 and Obama wasn't viable, having only 15. We were 3 short, which was a bummer because 3 of our pledges didn't show up."........translation........a hell of a lot of people like Clinton better than Edwards and Obama. ......and our some of our so-called supporters couldn't even bother to show up........yea they are really committed.

"I fail to see why the leadership of Clinton campaign cannot see the long term consequences of their scorched-earth strategies. There were thousands of enthusiastic, brilliant, and amazing young Obama supporters in NV this weekend. They are royally pissed at the Clintons and it's foolish to count on them to join Hillary like the Deaniacs joined Kerry in '04. The ones I met said they were seriously considering supporting Bloomberg if he got in the race. Do you really want part of your legacy to be that you squandered the finest young activists of the Democratic party to the altar of your ambition, Bill and Hillary?"...........translation.......we are young and know better than everyone else about what is for the best and if you don't do as we say we will take our toys and go home. We won't play anymore.

Obama and some of his supporters are about the most whiney assed bunch of crybabies in recent memory.

Clinton lost Iowa. Did she cry and stomp her feet that she lost unfairly because Oprah got the buses out for out of state students to caucus? No she didn't. She picked herself up, dusted herself off and won NH and Nevada.

And what did Obama and his supporters do afterwords? Whinge, whinge, whinge about alleged voter fraud in NH and now intimidation of caucus goers in NV. Forget about the fact they can't prove any of it......they sure as hell are going to cry about it and want some sympathy because they didn't win.

I got news for ya Obama et al.......these tactics will not Unite the Democrats but serve to alienate and if they continue to piss off half the Democratic party how in the hell are they going to unite America in the challenge to kick the Repukes out of the WH?

Boofuckinghoo.........learn to lose with something resembling grace.

*go ahead.......I wore my flame suit*

....if the nominee is not your top choice seriously needs to get on the train to Freeperville. Because that's exactly where America will wind up permanently if you don't support the Democratic nominee. I don't give a fuck if you do call yourself an Independent. This is the Democratic Underground. Anyone of our top three candidates will be 100 times better thasn anyone the Republican party puts forth......and since we don't have a third party system in America then a vote for anyone running as an independent is not a protest vote, it's a throwaway vote.......and a throwaway vote benefits the Republicans.

So for all of you saying you won't vote for _______ if they take the nomination........grow the fuck up and face reality. Life is about compromises. Deal with it.

This is America's last chance at redemption as far as I am concerned. If we fuck it up now then there is no going back.

....if the nominee is not your top choice seriously needs to get on the train to Freeperville. Because that's exactly where America will wind up permanently if you don't support the Democratic nominee. I don't give a fuck if you do call yourself an Independent. This is the Democratic Underground. Anyone of our top three candidates will be 100 times better thasn anyone the Republican party puts forth......and since we don't have a third party system in America then a vote for anyone running as an independent is not a protest vote, it's a throwaway vote.......and a throwaway vote benefits the Republicans.

So for all of you saying you won't vote for _______ if they take the nomination........grow the fuck up and face reality. Life is about compromises. Deal with it.

This is America's last chance at redemption as far as I am concerned. If we fuck it up now then there is no going back.

'A Leader for a Change' - Carter
'America Needs a Change' - Mondale
'I have news for the forces of greed and the defenders of the status quo: Your time has come and gone. Its time for a change in America.' - B. Clinton
'I still believe in a place called Hope' - B Clinton


No......Obama was not the first for Hope and Change and he certainly won't be the last. His message is no different than the many others being shouted from the stump now and in the past. I take issue with his pereived ownership of the ideas of hope and change. I take issue with making 'experience ' a dirty word. Perhaps because someone has very little of it? ....especially on a national and an international level?....yes there 'is something in the wind across America' .......a hell of a lot of hot air.

A change is coming in America regardless of who gets the Democratic Nomination. It sure as hell is not going to be a change for the worse.........it couldn't possibly be after the last 8 years.

Hope and Change are nothing new to politics or to America. We have had hope and change since America was founded. No one owns excluisve rights to the idea of either.


*yes, I'm back (for anyone that noticed) and I am learning to use my 'ignore' button.*

for a while at least..........maybe a few days.....maybe a few weeks or months.

I can't hang around a place that has degenerated into a viper pit like this. It's nasty and after going thru it all with the last primaries I thought I had seen it all........apparently I was wrong.

One thing I will say. Kudos to the Edwards supporters for acting for the most part graciously these past few days....at least to my eyes.

To some (note I say 'some' not all) of you Obama supporters....shame on you for the hate filled, nasty things you have leveled against a Democratic Candidate for the Presidency. I doubt seriously that the candidate you support would approve at all the ugly innuendo, half truths, attacks, sour grapes and out right nasty, vindictive lies I have seen on DU the past couple of weeks, escalating in the last 48 hours to a cesspool. I also question whether some of you are even genuine Obama supporters and not disrupters who registered here just to stir the shit up to an even higher level than it can be during the primaries. I have seen a lot of Republican attack techniques used by people who have a relatively low post count and who joined here within the last couple of months or weeks. (Yes I know not all new members are disrupters from you know where.........but I'd bet my bottom dollar that more than a few are).

No, I'm not leaving in a huff. I'm just going to avoid this place until my heart is in it again...as I said.....maybe a few days, maybe more.

Ya'll need to shape up and get your act together. This ugliness does none of us any good. We are spending too much time tearing each other down rather than building each other up......which is what we really need to be concentrating on in the coming year. Yes we have our political differences, but the one thing..........the one FUCKING thing we can all (at least all of us real Democrats) agree on is that we have got to get the Republicans out of the White House and start repairing what they have broken all over the world.

Kumbayah.

(closing the door and leaving it open a crack so it won't kick me on my weary fat ass).