Just maybe Chavez was aware of the reports that FratBoy likes to fart in the presence of new aides, and then rejoice in their embarrassment.

I used to be owned by this big red tabby tomcat. When spooked, he would run and stick his head under the couch, evidently believing that since he couldn't see out, he was totally hidden, while his whole body stuck out into the room. If you walked by, he wouldn't move. If you'd touch his tail, he'd freak.

Americans think we live in a vacuum, and we are only seen by the rest of the world when we want to be, and they only see what we show them.

Maybe Senor Chavez was telling us that our big butts are sticking out into the room, and the whole world can see what a lunatic we have in charge, even though we never elected the clod.

Hugo chavez received the longest standing ovation ever recorded in the history of the General Assembly. So no matter what we think, the rest of the world was not offended, but pleased.

America's decline was never as apparent as it was in the fact that they stood up and applauded ... and applauded .... and applauded some more, until gavelled to quiet.

Some Americans evidently still think that our big economy and bigger armed forces and our still bigger nuclear arsenal will buy us the love and respect of the world. This year's General Assembly should tell us that we should either pull our heads out from underneath the sofa, or we should get the rest of ourselves under cover, because we are not a nation beloved by the world, and any solidarity the world felt for us post-9/11 is gone.

So I say thank you, Hugo Chavez, for having the courage to speak. I hope you just pulled the thorn from the lion's paw.

It (Israel's ongoing skirmishes) will never be over because, basically, too many people want it to continue; so one border will settle down while another flares.

The way to peace isn't easy; in fact, war is seemingly the quickest, most efficient way to solve a conflict, because at some point consensus is reached that one party is defeated and the other one is not. The defeated party admits defeat to avoid total annihilation and the world moves on.

To make peace without having to go through the horror of war, everybody's needs and desires must be addressed. Not everybody's needs and desires will be fulfilled, certainly, but all parties must be satisfied that they've had their day in court.

In the Middle East, in the beginning of the 21st Century, nobody is willing to do that, so the wars go on. I'm afraid that rule may now apply to Iraq as well; hopefully, the people of Iraq will get a handle on their situation before it becomes too much worse.

Sooner or later, I keep telling myself, enough people will say "enough" and the work of peace can begin.

I guess that would apply to discussion board participants, as well.

Each will respond to the death of his or her fantasy in his or her own way, or course, but many, I would think, will become dispirited and leave their church.

At that time, some will be seeking, and teachable, and we will need to welcome them into our communities and help them get over it.

I think we need to keep our eyes open for these people, because once they are freed of this fantasy that has overwhelmed their lives (and their reason, imo), they will turn in different directions, some will end up in the reality based world.

They will be traumatized, and some of us hopefully will be able to help some of them to heal.

Why to Fundies hate gays? I think their subconscious thought process goes something like this:

They want to feel welcome and secure in their families and communities, and since religion is important to them, very much so in their churches. (This same thinking, however, applies to all strict and/or fundamentalist sects of any religion.)

Their religion demands strict codes of behavior from them, especially concerning their sexual behavior: sex with spouse only and only for procreation.

In order to feel secure in their community, they try to hold themselves very rigidly to that code of conduct. It's not easy, sometimes not at all satisfying. The only payoff is their sense of belonging and hope of future reward (going to heaven).

Along come people who do not believe as they do; who like to party; who may have more than one sexual partner, consecutively or concurrently; who "indulge themselves" in all sorts of behavior that is proscribed to the fundamentalist (use of alcohol, for instance, or maybe some gamling, or even dancing). These "sinful" people, further, are not struck down by God and, even worse, want to live among them, raise children who also will not be bound by their strict laws. Further, the fundamentalist's own children may see all the fun these other kids are having and want to "join" them and be lured into this sinful existence.

Some may feel themselves "lured" and "tempted" to be free to relax a bit, to try out new things, maybe to explore their own feelings about people of the same gender. But always in their mind will be those "teachings" that are "eternal" and "true" and, literally, written in stone: that those feelings are "wrong" and "sinful" and will result in their being shunned from the community of true believers and, worse, tormented for all eternity after death.

What to do? For some, an answer is to try to remove the source of their "temptation" -- which they perhaps see as Satan in the form of their gay or lesbian neighbors, or maybe Satan in the form of Rosie O'Donnell or Heath and Jack, or the two guys living quietly on the next block raising their kids together.

Because the life the fundamentalist has chosen for himself or herself -- consciously or as a result of upbringing -- is a difficult one. Their view of God is ultimately ambiguous: the loving Father patriarch who has only their good at heart, but who will, for the slightest unrepented infraction, gladly torment them for all eternity. And they are living alongside fellow congregants who are keeping a very sharp watch out for any "slippage" among their fellows, to keep their ministry pure and, therefore, more worthy of protection and reward in God's eyes.

Living under that kind of background stress, it's not surprising these people are intolerant. These rigid structures may be good for some, but I think that even for people who choose them, they are not particularly healthy -- not for the people "inside," not for their neighbors, and especially not for those who are doing the things these people say they don't do, because people outside the circle are ultimately seen as temptors (and therefore tools of Satan), and a threat to the believer's very soul.

Just my two cents.

When the time comes, you will know what to do. Seriously.

Watching the clips of *'s public appearances over the past few weeks, it seems clear he's coming unhinged. He wasn't all that tightly wrapped to begin with, and who knows what sort of a delusional state he's in right now? Or how he will react.

The GOP and the Religious Right and the Corporatists and the Neocons have been having their merry fun for some time now. They are all using each other to try to gain the upper hand. Some of those alliances will be breakable under the right conditions.

What we don't know are what will constitute the right condition to break any of these alliances. So I have to agree with the poster above: keep pressuring your elected representatives, the press, and anybody else in power in any legal and peaceful way you can dream up.

I don't know if the dam will suddenly overflow or if we're going to have to worry those small cracks open.

When we get a clear opening, however, what needs to be done will likely be clear.

Until then: courage.

I'll admit I don't have *The Answer* but I'm pretty damn sure that the only way to find peace is to look for it some other place than at the end of a battlefield.

Especially when there is no battlefield, only homes and villages and places where people gather.

I understand that puts me in a minority, but so be it. War is indeed a process for settling disputes, but silly me, I just keep believing there is a better one: not one that one country or group will impose on the rest, but one that eventually will be agreed upon mutually, if people are willing to do the hard work that process will require.

Or we can keep on blowing people into red mist.

I atteneded a small, interfaith seminary with several small congregations attached. I attended and volunteered at one which focused on the teachings in A Course in Miracles.

This was back in the early nineties, and a group of women (the congretation was more than half female) asked the ministers (one male, one female; the partnership was advertised as equal but he clearly was dominant) if a few Sunday mornings throughout the year we could replace all the male-specific language in the prayers and readings with either female specific or gender neutral language. Many of us had been reading and researching in Goddess studies, and wanted to experience that energy in our community worship, and not necessarily have to partition ourselves off to a female only venue.

The male minister -- a good, moral and progressive man -- was horrified and absolutely forbade the practice within his congregation.

I was mystified until a few months later, when listening to some Goddess songs, and heard the words "Glory be to the Mother, and the Daughter, and the Holy Spirit ..." and felt all of a sudden what had been missing for me all my life. Just for once I didn't have to mentally say, "Oh, and me, too ..." when the deity was mentioned, or the messenger. The transmission of power was clear and specific and it was direct from the Source to ME.

No wonder the pastor had been so freaked out. Probably without even realizing it, he had taken AS HIS BIRTHRIGHT that idenification with the All Powerful, and he was not about to share it with us.

The problem is I've yet to meet a man who could recognize that they assimilate power and the right to power as their birthright, and theirs alone. It's not their fault, it's presented to them and becomes a societal introject in their personalities. One to which women have very little, if any access.

Small wonder that men in traditional and fundamentalist religions freak out at the mere thought of women teaching men, or leading prayers, or even calling out to a female creator. At some level, one which they cannot or refuse to acknowledge, they know.

I hope I'm not hijacking this thread -- it's not my intention to start a religious flame war here. I just thought this illustrative of the fact that power vesting to men is so deeply engrained in our society that men -- and women -- don't even realize.

Until you ask if maybe some Sunday you could recite the Our Mother ...

Peace.