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MikeH's Journal
Posted by MikeH in General Discussion
Fri May 22nd 2009, 10:18 PM
Response to post in Time for change's thread titled Social Dominators, RW Authoritarians, and the 5 Pillars of the Right Wing Movement in the U.S.
First-borns tend to align with authority, unless they had a lot of conflict with their parents.

I myself am the firstborn of five children. When I was younger, in my teens and twenties, I was very conservative, certainly in personal tastes, lifestyle, and values, and to a certain extent in politics.

For instance I came of age during the 1960's and 1970's, and I did not share the liking that most people in my generation had for the rock-and-roll type of music. And I was in other ways very uptight.

I had some problems in high school with some difficult peers. That had much to do with my becoming uptight, and not liking rock-and-roll. I didn't want to like the kind of music that "they" liked. (Though unfortunately I found myself liking the same music my father liked.)

I had a very strong-minded, dominating father. When I was young I pretty much was not able to have my own thoughts about things, if such thoughts were against those that my father had. He was very easily offended, and I tried very hard not to offend him. I wanted to think that even if he was strong-minded and even dominating, he was basically good and basically had my best interests at heart.

I even registered as a Republican when I first registered to vote, I think in 1971. Though I shortly thereafter realized I was not happy being registered as a Republican, and changed my registration to an independent voter (no political party), and then shortly after that as a Democrat.

Even though my father had been a Democrat and had greatly admired FDR and Truman (he knew hardship during the Great Depression), and was strongly against Goldwater in 1964, he was very strongly against McGovern in 1972, and I was not able to go against him in that regard, and unfortunately voted for Nixon that year. My dad had served in the Navy during World War II (and had actually wanted to be in the Marines), and was offended by young people not willing to serve their country during the Vietnam War.

I became a Christian in my early 20's because it seemed to make sense to me. (Actually I had gone to church and Sunday School when I was younger, and a two-year confirmation class when I was in junior high, but at the time the real lesson about Christianity did not really "take" for me.) For a time it seemed to make sense to believe that the Bible might actually be God's authoritative "Word".

However I found that I had some serious problems as a young man, including problems with my relationship with my dad among other things.

As far as Christianity was concerned, I could never accept the idea of people going to hell if they did not "accept Christ" in this lifetime, for whatever reason. I became a more "mainstream" Christian; I went to Presbyterian, Methodist, and Lutheran churches which were not "fundamentalist", though I was in some groups with Christians who were of fundamentalist persuasion.

Over a period of time, with a number of episodes which happened starting in my early 20's, I came to realize that I had some serious problems in my relationship with my dad. He would decide in Godlike fashion that I needed, "for my own good", to be "lovingly" rebuked (actually treated like I had committed a crime or a heinous sin) when I made an honest mistake, honestly forgot something, or something was not according to his standards. And he was often especially poor at understanding, from my point of view, some difficult or sensitive personal issue which was causing me to be upset.

And I also had some problems at some of my early jobs. I badly screwed up on an assignment at my very first full-time job, and was not able to deal with the matter, and being chewed out by my boss, in a way that I was able to keep my dignity and self-respect.

My dad always worked very hard, and was "successful" (relatively speaking) in a worldly sense, and it seemed I could never measure up to his standards about working hard. I found that even if I was not going to outwardly rebel against him, I had a lot of inner rebellion which messed things up for me. I had a hard time at some of my early jobs.

It was about a little over a year after my father died, in the mid-1980's, when I was in my mid-30's, that I came to fully realize how angry I still was at my dad, and that he had been at times actually abusive. I.e. it was not just something wrong with me that I had problems with him (and a lot of anger, which spilled over into other areas of my life). That was a healthy realization for me.

I struggled with my anger about my dad for a long time, and was in much therapy, both individual and group therapy.

Along with realization that my dad had at times been abusive, I also came to realize that being a Christian (and supposedly having a personal relationship with Jesus Christ), had not been of help to me in enabling me to deal with my problems with my dad, and with other problems that I had. I eventually came to part company with the Christian faith, and feel as certain as I do of anything that that was the right thing for me to do.

There have been many very beneficial results in my life of having come to realize that my dad actually was at times abusive (i.e. my problems with him were not just something wrong with me.) I have become much less uptight, and much more certain about my own values, and much better in being able to deal with other people. And I have done some things that I had long wanted to do, both personally and professionally. (Though I have had, and still have problems, but to a lesser degree than I used to.) And I find that I am definitely "liberal" rather than "conservative", and much less aligning with authority than I used to be.


Making decisions is generally stressful. (This means, for most people, it's literally HARD to be the leader, because you have to make the decisions AND bear responsibility for the results for everyone, not just yourself. Of course, it wouldn't be nearly so hard for psychopaths.)

That is definitely true. I had a very hard time making some of my own decisions when I was a younger man. My dad was very strong and decisive, and I was often intimidated by him. (He eventually became president of a mid-sized electric utility company before he died, but was often very personally insensitive, though I don't think he was a total psychopath. He did do many very good things and very nice things, and when he was in a good mood he could be quite pleasant.) I have been much better at making my own decisions since coming to realize the truth about my dad.

Though I don't think I could myself ever be a leader or a boss, and make decisions and bear responsibility for the results of others. That is not for everyone. One thing that is very healthy is realizing my own strengths and my own weaknesses and limitations.

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MikeH
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1011 posts
Member since 2002
San Diego, California, USA
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The "Final Solution", Adaptation to Society's Norms, Morality and Duty, and Childhood Feelings
People with any sensitivity cannot be turned into mass murderers overnight. But the men and women who carried out "the final solution" did not let their feelings stand in their way for the simple reason that they had been raised from infancy not to have any feelings of their own but to experience their parents' wishes as their own. These were people who, as children, had been proud of being tough and not crying, of carrying out all their duties "gladly," of not being afraid--that is, at bottom, of not having an inner life at all.

...

This perfect adaptation to society's norms--in other words, to what is called "healthy normality"--carries with it the danger that such a person can be used for practically any purpopse. It is not a loss of autonomy that occurs here, hbecause this autonomy never existed, but a switching of values, which in themselves are of no importance anyway for the person in question as long as his whole value system is dominated by the principle of obedience. He has never gone beyond the stage of idealizing his parents with their demands for unquestioning obedience; this idealization can iasily be transferred to a Führer or to an ideaology. Since authoritarian parents are always right, there is no need for their children to rack their brains in each case to determine whether what is demanded of them is right or not. And how is this to be judged? Where are the standards supposed to come from if someone has always been told what was right and what was wrong and if he never had an opportunity to become familiar with his own feelings and if, beyond that, attempts at criticism were unacceptable to the parents and thus were too threatening for the child? If an adult has not developed a mind of his own, then he will find himself at the mercy of the authorities for better or worse, just as an infant finds itself at the mercy of its parents. Saying no to those more powerful will always seem too threatening to him.

...

Morality and performance of duty are artificial measures that become necessary when something essential is lacking. The more successfully a person was denied access to his or her feelings in childhood, the larger the arsenal of intellectual weapons and the supply of moral prostheses has to be, because morality and a sense of duty are not sources of strength or fruitful soil for genuine affection. Blood does not flow in artificial limbs; they are for sale and can serve many masters. What was considered good yesterday can--depending on the decree of government of party--be considered evil and corrupt today, and vice versa. But those who have spontaneous feelings can only be themselves. They have no other choice if they want to remain true to themselves. Rejection, ostracism, loss of love, and name calling will not fail to affect them; they will suffer as a result and will dread them, but once they have found their authentic self they will not want to lose it. And when they sense that something is being demanded of them to which their whole being says no, they cannot do it. They simply cannot.

Alice Miller
For Your Own Good: The Central Mechanism of "Poisonous Pedagogy"
Learning from Hitler and his childhood
What point is there for us today in learning about Hitler and his history? For me, the main point is this: our knowledge will serve as a warning against our blindness and encourage us to give it up once and for all and to struggle against collective repression. This is what I do consistently in all my books in order to help people understand the psychodynamics of the mistreatment of children and its immeasurable danger for society, as demonstrated by Hitler's case. My explanations are by no means intended to suggest pity for a man as merciless as Hitler.

it was in large part owing to Hitler and his history that I became aware of the dangers of our traditional morality. We are exhorted to honor our parents and never question them no matter what they have done. Yet when I realize that millions of human beings had to die so that Adolf Hitler could keep his repression of childhood trauma intact, that millions were subjected to humiliation in concentration camps so that he never had to recognize how he had once been humiliated, then I believe that one can't point out these connections often enough in order to shed light on this unconscious production of evil. How should young people be expected to recognize and reject inhumanity and crime if these continue to be disguised instead of being pointed out as plainly as possible? Only when young people are permitted to know exactly what happened and how it could happen, only if they don't allow anything to stifle their curiosity and are not afraid of the truth, can they free themselves from the burden placed upon them by their forebears' blindness.

Alice Miller
Adolf Hitler: How Could a Monster Succeed in Blinding a Nation?

See also
For Your Own Good: Preface to the American Edition

For Your Own Good: Adolf Hitler's Childhood: From Hidden to Manifest Horror
Other tyrants and their childhood
In the lives of all the tyrants I examined, I found without exception paranoid trains of thought bound up with their biographies in early childhood and the repression of the experiences they had been through. Mao had been regularly whipped by his father and later sent 30 million people to their deaths, but he hardly ever admitted the full extent of the rage he must have felt toward his own father, a very severe teacher who had tried through beatings to "make a man" out of his son. Stalin caused millions to suffer and die because even at the height of his power his actions were determined by unconscious infantile fear of powerlessness. Apparently his father, a poor cobbler from Georgia, attempted to drown his frustration with liquor and whipped his son almost every day. His mother displayed psychotic traits, was completely incapable of defending her son and was usually away from home either praying in church or running the priest's household. Stalin idealized his parents right up to the end of his life and was constantly haunted by the fear of dangers that had long since ceased to exist but were still present in his deranged mind. The same might be true of many other tyrants. The groups of people they singled out for persecution and the rationalization mechanisms they employed were different in each case, but the fundamental reason behind it was probably identical. They often drew on ideologies to disguise the truth and their own paranoia. And the masses chimed in enthusiastically because they were unaware of the real motives, including those operative in their own biographies. The infantile revenge fantasies of individuals would be of no account if society did not regularly show such naive alacrity in helping to make them come true.

Alice Miller
The Political Consequences of Child Abuse
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