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RJ Connors's Journal
 When will I learn that every time I think I’ve seen the strangest, most inappropriate Jesus junk possible, there’s always something worse.  Get Rapture Ready (If it doesn't work put 3 W's at the Front)
1. If you are asked about the history of the church and you give the history of your local building campaign, you might be an Evangelical.
2. Believe that hell is going to be populated by Catholics (except for Mel Gibson), the Clintons, Mormons (with a special dispensation for Glen Beck), the staff of New York Times (all of them), Rosie Odonnell, all of the people from the East coast and West coast (with a special hot spot for Hollywood), Brian McLaren, and all Liberals, you might be an Evangelical.
3. If you ask someone how their spiritual life is going and you really mean “Have you been doing your morning daily devotionals,” you might be an Evangelical.
4. If your favorite vacation spot is Branson MO, you might be an Evangelical.
5. If you think Kurt Cameron should get the academy award for best actor in Fire Proof, you might be an Evangelical.
6. If you think abstinence education is the most important need for your children, you might be an Evangelical.
7. If you see someone begging for money and you think it is due to their sinful laziness, you might be an Evangelical.
8. If you have ever handed out Left Behind as an evangelistic tract, you might be an Evangelical.
9. If you know what a tract is, you might be an Evangelical.
10. If you choose a church based upon the selection of donuts and coffee (and price), you might be an Evangelical.
11. If you evangelize by saying, “If you were standing before God and he asked you ‘Why should I let you into my heaven?’ what would you say?” you might be an Evangelical.
12. If your church’s weekly events consists of Men’s Lunch Bible Study on Wed, Ladies Beth Moore Study Teus afternoon, Men’s Prayer Breakfast at Chick-fil-a on Monday, Truth Project Friday’s, Potluck Dinner Every other Sunday, Men’s Accountability Group Thursday, The Passion of the Christ Watch Party Every Saturday Evening, and Men’s Every Man’s Battle Study Group Everyday (Morning and Evening), you might be an Evangelical.
13. If you define missions by your yearly trip to Mexico to start a church and leave within three days, you might be an Evangelical.
14. If you think that the John Ryland’s papyri is the earliest fragment of a church bulletin from Pastor John Ryland’s church, you might be an evangelical.
15. If you think homoousios is the emphatic bill for same-sex marriage, you might be an Evangelical.
16. If your support of the church is determined by parking availability, you might be an Evangelical.
17. If your three cardinal sins are fornication, homosexuality, and voting Democrat, you might be an Evangelical.
18. If you have submitted to your wife and feel guilty about it, you might be an Evangelical.
19. If public witness mean a fish on the back of your car and wearing an abstenance ring, you might be an Evangelical.
20. If you limit yourself to one glass of wine or one beer a week and still hide it, you might be an Evangelical.
21. If you don’t really have any idea what “Evangelical” means, you might be an Evangelical.
Your turn…
I Am Thankful I Was Delivered From When I Was Made A Christian While doing some wandering around the net today I found a series of sites I found extremely interesting. Seems there are some Christian sites out there who just despise FreeRepublic.com and had some interesting things to say about them. Looks like it started when a guy named John Lofton said some true things about America, which of course the Freepers had a shit fit over and he ended up getting banned from the site. It seems that John is a writer of some sort for a publication called The America View and well wrote a story that was not real flattering of JimRob and some other dimwits at FR. These lead to some other bulletin boards and blogs from "The Banned" on FR that brings some interesting perspective as to what normal people think about the "Freepers" and what they really are. The main story can be found at: “Free Republic” Site Kind Of Godless “Conservatism” I Am Thankful I Was Delivered From When I Was Made A ChristianBy John Lofton, Editor I’ve been kicked off the “Free Republic” web site. No more posting allowed. The problem? The results of my brain scan. It revealed I had one — a definite no-no if you’re posting among the “FReepers.” But, seriously…… Have any of you spent any time looking at the “Free Republic” web site? Yikes! If most of the folks posting on this site are what a “Free Republic” produces, then give me Communist Slavery every time. Just kidding— about the “Communist Slavery” crack. But, I’m not kidding about the “Free Republic” site. So, why, seriously, was I dumped? Well, I posted this comment: Vanity: Oh, No! Obama Pastor Says Something Which Makes Sense!! “It was a horrible, shocking, unnerving experience. Reading some of the things Barack Obama’s pastor has said, I suddenly saw something with which I completely agree!! He said five days after 9/11: “We bombed Hiroshima, we bombed Nagasaki, and we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon, and we never batted an eye….” His point: Chickens were coming home to roost. I agree. We certainly committed terrorism and murder when we dropped two atomic bombs on open cities in Japan. And, as Ron Paul has said, correctly, re: 9/11: The terrorists were over here because, first, we were over there in their part of the world sticking our nose into fights none of our business. Finally, none other than God Himself tells us in Galatians 6  : “Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.” (con't) “Free Republic” Site Kind Of Godless “Conservatism” I Am Thankful I Was Delivered From When I Was Made A ChristianAlso, check out the forum on this site at: http://www.theamericanview.com/forums/show... Particularly this post. 23rd April 2008 HenryAdams Active Member + Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Physically: California -- Spiritually: Seated in the heavenly places. Ephesians 2:6 Posts: 567 I especially love your quotes of Mr. Robinson. How is it that a mind can be so warped to say that you, “As a conservative site, Free Republic is pro-God, pro-life,… pro-Constitution….”, and not recognize how anti-God, anti-life, and anti-Constitution this current administration is? How Orwellian is this statement “We support our military, our troops and our Commander-in-Chief and we oppose turning control of our government back over to the liberals and socialists who favor appeasement, weakness, and subserviency.”? Without any thought whatsoever, Robinson says he becomes strong and independent through his "subserviency" to the current government. Because of his fear and weakness, Robinson is willing to find comfort and security in an abusive, domineering government. Mr. Robinson, it is you who favors appeasement, weakness, and "subserviency"! You appease the government of GW! You are weak in your stand for freedom! You would rather be a slave and kept safe than to be free and face danger! You are the subservient! You stand by and applaud as the freedoms once guaranteed by the Constitution are stripped away in front of your very eyes! Ah, Mr. Robinson, you are the perfect modern-day Oceania resident. Instead of being a Winston and questioning the "reality" provided for you, you repeat the mantra "War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength" and you truly believe it. Last edited by HenryAdams; 23rd April 2008 at 11:43. Reason: spelling And also check out the blog at: http://jgrubbs.blogspot.com/2004/09/freere... Looks like some of the Christians in America are starting to call FreeRepublic for what it is, a fascist website.
Some here on DU have known about the struggles my family and I have been going through for the last several years which has led us into having financial difficulties which have been pretty daunting. To make a long story short we have had several issues, compounded by medical issues, compounded by getting hit by a drunk driver, which was further compounded by our mortgage company trying to steal our home through foreclosure proceedings for the last year now.
They have on more than one occasion tried to ram foreclosure proceedings through the court, of which there is some reason to think the court was complicit in helping them accomplish such, and which I have been unrelenting in fighting. Fortunately, I have some background in law and have at least a clue as to how to respond, but without having adequate funds to retain council this has been a major undertaking, as foreclosure proceedings has not been something I have kept up with over the years. (I tend to focus more on individual rights and liberties, rights of consumers, boundaries of governmental authority and particularly, criminal law, in recent years).
I have been working for the last year with a HUD contractor to try and work out a deal with my mortgage company but the mortgage holder has been completely unresponsive in that they won’t even return calls. In recent months I worked out a deal that if we could recast the payments for a short time (6 months – year) I would be able to pay them all of the back payments (minus penalties and interest)within about 6 months, and most likely be able to resume regular payments at that time. Which in these economic times I thought was a damn good deal! Particularly in light of the fact that the government gave them several billion dollars in bailout money, it would seem to me they should maybe be required to be a bit more responsive in helping their clients as well. Not on you life, never got a response from them on way or another on my offer.
So while I was figuring out how to counter their latest attack in court I drafted up a 5 page outline of our situation and how we got here and sent it off to my senator in the mail. I really didn’t expect to hear anything back for at least 2 months or so if I heard anything at all. In the interim I have just quit working with the HUD contractor as I wasn’t getting anywhere with her.
Much to my surprise I got a package in the mail in about 10 days with an offer from Senator Bayh to get involved with the mortgage company if I thought he could help. To say the least I was quite pleasantly surprised. Since the time I sent my letter to Senator Bayh I have brought the court to the realization that I am not going to give up my house without a fight, and with some additional filings I submitted I was granted a hearing on the matter in late April, buying me some more time to consider my legal options and to see what happens under the new administration. However, being granted this hearing assured me that at least my family is not going to get thrown out in the cold and if we need to liquidate and move I now have some time to work with. But I hadn’t got around to responding to Senator Bayh’s letter and letting him know that for now we were still in the game, but that I would like to preserve his offer for help in the future, should it become necessary.
Then this morning as I was getting everybody off to where they need to go today the phone rang. I assumed it might be the school calling saying that instead of a two hour delay they were just canceling school today due to the cold, as I usually don’t get calls in the morning. Much to my surprise it was Senator Bayh's office calling to follow up with me as they had not received a response from me to their letter, and they were very interested in my situation because they have, as she put it, many, many, complaints on this particular mortgage company just refusing to work with people and the senator is pretty upset by this.
I explained my current position with caller and how for now I am O.K, but that I would forward the mortgage information to them, but at this time I was still continuing court proceedings and didn’t want to take up the Senators time unless it was absolutely necessary to do so. She indicated that would be fine and they will look foreword to receiving my information and should I need the senators help in the future to give them a call.
I guess I was just taken aback somewhat as it was to a certain degree demonstrating that the process can work, at least sometime. I was glad my daughter was still at home to hear the phone conversation as it was a great opportunity for a civics lesson that you can work with the government to get help, at least in some instances. She was pretty knocked out that I was getting a personal phone call from a United States Senator’s office and I think it helped to restore at least some of her confidence that things may not be as bad as they seem and that there is help out there.
Anyway, as this is a story of things going right, I wanted to post for everyone to see that in the midst of all this turmoil we currently find ourselves in, there are still some things that are working like they should be.
I was reading the Qur’an this morning, (for Freeper lurkers I am not a Muslim, I study the theology of many world religions) and came across this one verse, which in and of itself was not real interesting but the footnote just blew me away. I had to read it a couple of times and thought, gee, that describes our world today. I will give the verse first for context, it is concerning a prophet named Shu’ayb, and then list the footnote. Surah Al-A‛rāf 7:88The leaders, the arrogant Party among his people, said: 1058“O Shu’ayb! We shall Certainly drive thee out Of our city-(thee) and those Who believe with thee; Or else ye (thou and they) Shall have to return To our ways and religion” He said: “What! Even Though we do detest (them)? Note 1058The gentle, all-persuasive arguments of Shu’ayb fell on hard hearts. Their only reply was: “Turn him out!-him and his people.” When courtesy and a plea for toleration are pitted against bigotry, what room is there for logic? But bigotry and unrighteousness have their own crooked ways of pretending to be tolerant.
“O yes!” they said, “We are very tolerant and long-suffering! But we are for our country and religion. Come back to the ways of our fathers, and we shall graciously forgive you!” “Ways of their fathers!” - they meant injustice and oppression, high-handedness to the poor and the weak, fraud under cover of religion, and so on! Perhaps the righteous were the poor and the weak. Were they likely to love such ways? Perhaps there was implied a bribe as well as a threat. “If you come back and wink at our iniquities, you shall have scraps of prosperity thrown at you. If not, out you go in disgrace!” Source: Ali, ‘Abdullah Yūsuf. The Meaning of the Holy Qur’ān. Beltsville, Maryland: Amana,Tenth Edition (Reprint), 2001 A.C. pg.369
I have, to some degree, been listening to Rush Limbaugh (on a limited bases as there is only so much one can take)since the inauguration of President Obama. I am a firm believer in knowing ones enemy and I just couldn't wait to hear how he was going to spin 8 years of absolutely disastrous Republican control and the massive damage it has done to America. On last Thursday I heard Rush say, during a discussion of Matt Lauer and White House spokesperson Robert Gibbs, right before going to break, Rush made the following statement: RUSH: Hey, Bob? The only thing bipartisan was the people who voted against it. The American people do want to see their economy rebound. It's just it's not going to happen with your plan. And one thing, Mr. Gibbs -- and I understand you're the best press secretary they ever had up there. That's what the Drive-Bys told us before you got the gig, I understand that, but you "don't want leaders from either party listening to just one person rather than listening to millions of voices." Don't you understand, Mr. Gibbs? Certainly by now you do. My voice is the voice of millions of God-fearing American conservatives. That's why I'm listened to. It's because my voice equals millions. It isn't just me. I'm not going it alone here.
"I have an army. I'm the general, but I have an army". Really? And just what do you plan to do with this Army Rush? I mean we all know that you are going to rile them up with lies about how President Obama is going to do them in, take all their money, and other such tripe. (Which unfortunately they will swallow, hook, line, and sinker) But what exactly to you mean? Do you mean you are going to organize them for political protest? Or maybe a massive call in campaign on some issue or another. Or is this potentially a veiled threat directed at President Obama? One could conclude that with you and all of your ditto-heads, (meaning they are just stupid enough to do whatever you say)being avid supporters of the 2nd Amendment, and I am sure armed to the teeth, that maybe you are implying something more permanent. Like say the start of a armed insurrection of conservatives against the evils of Obamanism, socialism, forced conversion to Islam,(since, according to you, Obama is a Muslim), Liberalism, or whatever the threat De Jure against good, God fearing, patriotic conservative American is, which you are currently promoting. I mean Rush, you just really weren't clear on what the intent of your statement was to your listeners with that statement and some of us, who are not mindless followers of you might not understand the code you are conveying to your listeners who, whatever the exact number is because I'm sure you lie about that also, do number in the millions. I for one have some concern that you might be making a threat against the United States government and/or the President of the United States of whom you obviously have much disdain for. I really think that a responsive government who are charged with protecting the citizenry of America during these turbulent times should look into this. For more context the rest of the rant can be found here: http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/sit...
Well you had to know it was coming sooner or later. Actually, when I think about it, I should be surprised that it took this long, but this morning I was perusing the hideouts of the truly psychotic, (Conservative) web sites, and there it was, the world is operating as expected. It was funny as just before I found this piece of intellectual junk I had just be thinking to myself, the nice thing about the Republicanistas (fascists) being swept out of power is that it makes political analysis a whole lot easier, (and of course, less time consuming). Primarily because now when I get up in the morning and see a news story about a new bill the Obama administration has introduced, or some E.O. that Obama has signed, I no longer have to do any painstaking research which can sometimes take up hours of time. Now, all I have to do is visit 2 or 3 Fascist (conservative neo-con) web sites and it they are for it, I'm against it. If they are against it, I'm for it. If they are getting all tangled up in contorted body positions and foaming at the mouth, then I am really for it. I'm just not going to know what to do with all the new found available time I will have at my disposal from this development. It is really true, ObamaNation will set you free. So, here for you amusement and pleasure is the proclamation that Evangelical Christians, (once again helping to fulfill their persecuted Christian complex), are under attack. And be sure to check out some of the rantings I picked up at Freerepublic.com proclaiming "the end is near", and other such nonsense. Obama Declares War
By Dr. David R. ReaganThe Obama Administration has wasted no time in declaring war on Evangelical Christians. Within minutes after the new President took his oath of office, his staff posted his agendas concerning homosexuality and abortion on the White House website. Sexual PerversionWith regard to sexual perversion, the President's policy goals are spelled out as follows: 1) Defeat all state and federal constitutional efforts to defend the definition of biblical marriage as being a union between one man and one woman. 2) Repeal the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) signed by Bill Clinton. (This is currently the only line of defense keeping all 50 states from being forced to recognize so-called "same-sex marriages" from extremely liberal states like Massachusetts and Connecticut.) 3) Repeal the military's "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy. 4) Pass "hate crimes" legislation granting homosexuals and cross dressers special rights denied to other Americans. (This legislation, depending on how it is drafted, could even attempt to muzzle any criticism of homosexuality as being unbiblical and unnatural perversion.) (snip) AbortionWith regard to abortion, The President's agenda is: 1) Opposition to any constitutional amendment to overturn the Supreme Court's abortion decision in Roe v Wade. 2) Support of the Prevention First Act which would provide access to contraception and "preventive services to help reduce unintended pregnancies" (a euphemism for abortion). You will find these proposals on the White House website at www.whitehouse.gov/agenda/women. (snip) Consequences to the NationThis outrageous attack on biblical morals should come as no surprise to anyone. The American voters were warned time and time again during the presidential campaign that Obama would push the most radical homosexual and abortion agenda in American history. But millions voted for charisma and eloquence rather than paying attention to the issues. (snip) Call to PrayerWe need to pray as we have never prayed before for our President. We need to pray for his heart to be softened and his ideas to be conformed to God's Word (Proverbs 21:1). And we need to pray that all his efforts to implement policies contrary to God's Word will be confused, frustrated, and defeated. Yeah, a call to prayer, that's whats needed as it worked at so well in that "Faith Based Economic" policy we put in place. The rest of this diatribe can be found here: The Christ in Prophecy JournalAnd now for a random sampling of the reasoned responses (FreepHysteria) posted in the Black Hole of Cyberspace (Freerepublic.com)To: F15Eagle
obama isn’t just saying ‘live and let live’ here. He is taking one side and putting the full force of the Executive branch behind it. Makes me wonder about those gay tabloid rumors that were floating around during the election. It seems to be almost a personal passion of his.
3 posted on Thu Jan 29 2009 04:24:32 GMT-0500 (Eastern Standard Time) by allmost
< Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies> Yeah, seems to me there was someone else who put the full force of the Excutive branch behind something or another. Now who was that? To: allmost
Yep, and we have the MSM, “Good Morning America”, “The Today Show”, “Saturday Night Live”, late-night comedians and the rest of Hollywood to thank for Obamanation.
4 posted on Thu Jan 29 2009 04:32:24 GMT-0500 (Eastern Standard Time) by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, John 11:25, 14:6, 1 Tim 2:5, John 3:17-18, John 20:31, 1 John 5:13, John 6:69)
< Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies>
To: F15Eagle
“We need to pray as we have never prayed before for our President. We need to pray for his heart to be softened and his ideas to be conformed to God’s Word (Proverbs 21:1). And we need to pray that all his efforts to implement policies contrary to God’s Word will be confused, frustrated, and defeated.”
AMEN!
9 posted on Thu Jan 29 2009 05:26:11 GMT-0500 (Eastern Standard Time) by Shery (in APO Land)
< Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies>
To: F15Eagle
I’d say Obama has declared war on a lot more than just evangelical Christians. He has declared war on those Catholics who actually follow and believe Catholic teaching.
16 posted on Thu Jan 29 2009 06:40:44 GMT-0500 (Eastern Standard Time) by Catholic Iowan
< Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies> Well, I guess I can agree with one thing they say, "God save our Nation", cause after these yahoo's got done with the country, it is seriously in deep trouble.
(gm). Cuban gangster Tony Montana provided an acute geo-economic description of world affairs today. He said, ‘first you get the money, then you get the power, and then you get the woman’. If the history of the Spanish Empire is anything to go by, Montana is certainly correct. Besides the great wealth extracted from South America, the Hispanic legacy is proof that they also ‘got the woman’... This process is exemplified currently by the United States which benefits enormously from issuing the worlds reserve currency; the dollar. Yet recent developments indicate that the strategic asset the U.S. issues can be used against them by contending states, and that a timely solution to this problem is unfolding as a result of the current “Financial Crisis”. Dollar Diplomacy When we speak about the power of the United States, we tend to sum up the U.S. as a sovereign geographic area comprising a political structure overseeing a powerful military, as well as productive economic units and the world’s largest capital markets, acting as a cohesive unit and conducting imperial wars in its self-interest. The reality is a bit different with the devil being in the details as the Chinese say. Upon close inspection we find that 20% of all U.S. assets are owned by foreigners. So to add some humour to the ‘War on Terror’, we can say that the United States, plus a bit of China, a bit of Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, a little Russia and some of Germany, invaded Iraq. ‘China and Russia bought the debt the United States issued to finance the war in Iraq even though they voted against the United States in the UN’ says a report by the prestigious Council on Foreign Relations. This “buying of debt” has become an integral element in the power potential of the United States. If money is debt, then the world’s largest debtor nation is providing the world with a valuable service; providing us with dollars to trade and finance national development. If money is the step to power, then things start getting ugly. Judging by the foreign exchange holdings of the world’s largest trade surplus nations, including the active arm of this accumulated capital, Sovereign Wealth Funds, such as the Abu Dhabi Investment Council, sitting with a hefty $875 billion and China’s SAFE investment corporation with $311.6 billion, the ability of these concentrations of capital to win friends and influence people seems unlimited. What also seems unlimited is the United States’ indifference to its burgeoning current account deficit. The more dollars it pumps out into the global economy in exchange for goods and services, the more goods and services it is expected to return to those who trustingly accepted paper for goods. With a withering industrial base and relatively high costs, U.S. exports are not what they were during the first half of the 20th century, and this brings the significance of Sovereign Wealth Funds into focus. But first the dollar. The U.S. dollar entered into worldwide use after the Second World War. Its strength and safety rooted in the massive economic base of the United States which towered over its war torn allies in Europe. Dollar loans were extended to Europe through the Marshall Plan, and were needed in order to purchase industrial exports from the U.S. into Europe, including oil from the infamous ‘Seven Sisters’, at the time the seven largest British-Dutch and American oil companies controlling significant amounts of the resource from around the world. The Bretton Woods system established a dollar-exchange monetary regime in which all currencies concerned were pegged to the dollar, in turn pegged to gold at $35 per ounce, making the dollar ‘as good as gold’. Confidence in the dollar was lost however after the strategically irrational Vietnam War as the U.S. printed vast quantities of the paper to fund its war effort, similar to the massive budget increases today as a result of the ‘War on Terror’. De Gaul led the charge in demanding gold in exchange for France’s accumulated dollar reserves and was followed by other nations fearing a future dollar devaluation, which meant less gold for paper. Nixon decided to keep what gold was left by 1971 when be unilaterally broke with the Bretton Woods system, refusing to redeem dollars for gold. The dollar was now a ‘floating’ currency, its value determined by ‘market forces’ and helped by the 400% increase in the price of oil in 1973 as international demand for dollars surged to cover the higher oil prices. A few years later the dollars medium-term future was secured when it became ‘backed by oil’. In 1974 Treasury Secretary Michael Blumenthal “cut a secret deal with the Saudi’s so that OPEC would continue to price oil in dollars”, and only dollars. This gave the world a definitive need to accumulate dollars since in the event of another oil shock such as occurred in 1973; countries without sufficient dollar reserves would run out of the foreign exchange needed to guarantee energy security. One way to acquire dollars was for a state to gain market access in the U.S., receiving dollars for their exports. With a host of states competing for the same market to acquire dollars, goods became favourably priced to American consumers, making the American dream so much easier. This situation also allowed the United States to pursue a kind of ‘dollar diplomacy’, exploiting the world’s dollar needs for political and economic concessions, such as preferential trade agreements and political support in the United Nations. The IMF and World Bank also extended the majority of their loans in dollars, expecting to be paid back in dollars as well, plus interest. (con't) http://www.globaliamagazine.com/?id=548
n the midst of its Gaza operations, the IDF is entering yet another conflict zone: the Internet. The Israeli army announced yesterday the creation of its own YouTube channel, through which it will disseminate footage of precision bombing operations in the Gaza Strip, as well as aid distribution and other footage of interest to the international community. "The blogosphere and new media are another war zone," said IDF Foreign Press Branch head Maj. Avital Leibovich. "We have to be relevant there." Her sentiment reflects a growing awareness in the Israeli government that part of the failure of the 2006 Second Lebanon War was Israel's lack of readiness for the intense media debate surrounding its operations. Since the beginning of the Gaza air strikes, Israeli politicians have been appearing regularly on the largest international news networks to defend the IDF. Leibovich's YouTube initiative is another piece of the new media offensive. (con't) http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid...
Just my inner ramblings for the day.
The religious right is always jumping up and down about how G-d is all against homosexuality and he's going to knock all of us dead because of it, and on and on and on. OK, whatever, these people, who constantly claim that a mere mortal cannot possible understand G-d, seem to know an awful lot about what he likes and dislikes. I wonder if they know whether or not G-d takes his coffee black or with creme and sugar.
But anyway, whenever I run into these kinds of people the first thing I ask is,"Well, what did Jesus have to say about homosexuality"? This is where I get blank stares or they start going into convulsions, because the answer is, if they actually do know something about their Bible, nothing. Jesus had zero, zip, zilch, nada, nil, to say about homosexuality.
I told one fundie a while back that I just didn't get why conservative Christians were so preoccupied with homosexual sex. (along with heterosexual sex which apparently they abhor that too unless it is for procreation), I told him that I really didn’t think about it too much but then again I'm not gay. It would seem also, based on scripture, Jesus didn't think about it too much either.
This is where they immediately resort to Leviticus and such in the Old Testament, or as I prefer to call it the Hebrew scriptures, or the Torah. I do that because I think that the phrase Old Testament has an ingrained cultural anti-Semitism in that, “your religion is old, outdated, meaningless, while ours, the New Testament, is the new and improved version”. Or as I like to refer to it, Bible 2.0
So they grab the Torah scriptures which they claim abhors homosexuality although several century’s worth of Rabbinical scholarship most often disagrees with that position. Isn't it interesting that when an O.T. cite of scripture works against the religious right they claim that we no longer follow the O.T. And if you are really dealing with an fundamentalist intellectual, (isn't that a contradiction in terms), they will say grace relieved us of the burden of following the O.T., hence we only have to do 10 of the 613 commandments, or 1.6% of them. Gives one a lot of free time I suppose.
But then, they turn around and if the O.T. supports their position, well then we are bound by Gawd to follow it. Kind of like you can tell weather or not they will claim a support for state rights, or federal rights, depending on which one will work out better for them.
So back to the main issue, lets suppose that the Torah Hebrew scripture does support the idea that homosexuality is an abomination to G-d. There are 6 passages they cite in this argument. One also finds that the Bible also has 6 passages that pertain to the absolute necessity of having accurate scales for use in commerce. To insure that you are dealing straight with you brother and not taking him for a ride.
Viewed in that context it would seem that the importance of homosexuality for G-d is right up there with the selling of produce. Which wouldn’t seem to me to be a front burner issue.
But then again, what do I know, I'm not as theologically well turned or astute as my fundamentalist brothers in the reading of the Biblios.
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