Given that the santa analagy can have two meanings (Yes, ignoring the surrealist for the sake of expediency)

Then it could mean either:
1) All the characterisitics carry in the analagy, such that it would be derogatory to religous persons,

OR

2) The way it was intended, carrying only the properties that it is A) Something of common ground to deem untrue (for reasons of evidence), without offending persons of other religions, and B) It is something that others take on faith, and as such is a useful tool to allow comprehension between those who would otherwise place themselves into groups.

BUT: "So obviously contrary to reality that anyone who asserts it is either a dope, or thinks I'm a dope" is certainly true of the former. The atheists had counted on how obviously the first interpretation was wrong (unless you assume that the person bieng spoken to is stupid), so the interpretation would naturally shift to the latter.

However, it was not expected that there were those who would assume that the poster thought the responder foolish, therefore changing the analagy to the first situation.

This creates a discrepancy between what was rapidly becoming two sides, such that those who made the analagy saw it as the harmless second form, whereas those who took offense saw it as the not-so-nice first choice. That also explains both the 'whiney' comments, and the anger.

Well, I am glad that cleared that up. Good that we finally agree on something, at least (though, yes, as always I may be in error in my understanding of "So obviously contrary to reality that anyone who asserts it is either a dope, or thinks I'm a dope", so I cannot say for certain that we agree, but I sincerely hope so)

Cheers, will pass this on,
R_A.

take back the country from the * admin bastards.

Go the Americans!

site that claimed, for instance, looking at women in 'that way', even if you aren't married equals adultery.

All ten commandments were like that, but I still scored 3/10 (No, I wasn't innocent of his adultery clause), next week 4/10, and if his statements weren't contradictory, I could get 5/10.

Considering that the guy behind it is also known as Captain Wack McWierd, Leitenant of the WhatTheFuckIsHeGibberingAbout corps, to get that score you have to be an angel. Who looks at tits.

They were for all different psych illnesses anyway.

I'm almost fine now. Through a long series of luck, and an *ahem*load of hard work, I have all but one syptom under control. I can't drink (alcohol) though: I've wired massive social inhibitions to the danger areas, and alcohol destroys those inhibitions.

Wait, I need to explain 'wired'.... which means I'll have to tell my little tale hope you don't mind.

Note: I doubt this'll be as bad as many a story I've seen here, and don't worry, it all turns out good in the end.

The only prefactor I can think in this that is really important (aside from having mental illness on both sides of the family) is that, due to a psychologist screwing up my mother's family, I could never see a psychiatrist with my mothers knowledge, and given I was in a small country area, it was impossible. So I couldn't.

Part two: From about 14-ish my mind did aplenty of strange things, paranoia, delusions, *stuff* I don't care to mention, compulsive behaviours, loss of emotion, and to cap it all off, my ability to interpret faces screwed up.... still to this day cannot recognise faces beyond about 6-8 metres.

Anyway, there was also an incredibly bad stigma attached back home. Basically, there was so much potsmoking with marijauna far more potent than the natural, the No.1 reason for ambulance callouts was to youth suicide attempts. Good thing I never tried the stuff, most of my friends had by 14.

Part three: I had always been introspective, and and a keen scientist (I mean Einstein and Bohr by year 9), a hit and miss method with ways of thinkng and controlling got the first round under control.... tenatively. 14-17 has been very, very lonely. Worse was still to come: With only a crude reactive ability to control, things got worse, firstly, I think, because in teaching myself to feel emotions again (see the 'Have you lived or worked with a sociopath'thread in the lounge), my mind, which in analagy was bieng told and told to feel emotion (end analagy) and couldn't see it on the faces of others, severely overcompensated when I finally could tell what others were feeling (It's something we all do, when we know what another feels we feel the emotions that we think they do), and this happened whilst I was reading all about abnormal psychology. Cue many, many problems. The worst, however, (though how long it had been going on, I don't know)was still to come.

Part four: Invented memory. This is from schizophrenia on my mother's side. First picked it up when I finally worked out how the mind perceives dreams... led to my first discovery. I picked it because the heights of the people invovled were different, they were what my mind expected. Tenative questioning of my friends meant I was right.

Part five: By this time I was beginning to work out many a stratagem, but it was getting too complex.
Then I learnt how I could create invented memory myself.... what does a smart bastard (my one recompense) do when given this opportunity? He works and works and works at it. I even neglected play and schoolwork for it. Yeah, I know that sounds obsessive, and it was. But this was after I'd figured out how to trigger obsessive behaviour. It was lucky that I did have some measure of control, as by now the 'people I could see that others couldn't' were telling me to kill myself.

Part six: To cut a very long story, replete with details, short, I ended up with what I have now: A 28-barrier mental defense system (called that for 'historical' reasons) Which still has 26 components like they were meant to... (hallucination/delusion/paranoia finders) like the 22nd barrier, which will move the eyes to check the change of focus- what is real, and what the mind presumes, are two different things.

At this point, I have wieghed up immodesty vs. truth, and will tell the truth. My apologies for bieng immodest.

The intelligence involved was such that, even with school neglected, I still got more than 100% in my final exams. How this was done is enough to identify me by name, but if you doubt my story, PM me. I won't mind; I just don't like writing personal details on the open slather (No, not just Tab, any of you can PM me)

Anyway, so I've moved to uni. I've made friends. I might even get a girlfriend . A novel experience. Almost my entire mind is absolutely fine. However, there is that one part that visualises self doing 'socially non-conformative' things... though nothing illegal, don't worry.

I'm far away from family too, another plus.
And I'm not lonely here. Living successfully in a flat with 4 other people!

1) Those who are lying purely for the money/power. These people just don't care about others anymore. (Well, 'their actions are such that one would assume that') however this is quite possibly due to what appears to be the incorrect assumption that society doesn't really change.

2) The majority have made an incorrect assumption, that is now hidden behind the wall people put around their beleifs. This changes the interpretation of new data; in this case the entire reality is such a way that it appears the logical deduction, that given the assumptions (with an unkown flaw) must be correct. Each one of these is beleived, and forms a new incorrect assumption.

I realise that not going into detail has caused this post to be somewhat opaque, please tell me if I am required to elaborate.
Cheers,
R_A.

Post the original)
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I'm the bloke who voted 'Other'
I'm fine most of the time, but I have been known to suddenly exhibit symptoms of a number of mental disorders....
(Autism, Depression, and a few types of schitzophrenia are the most common) that just come and go, rather suddenly. In time I've learnt to control all of these very well, actually, although one of my mechanisms means I can't drink, unfortunately, (though I did try some non-alcoholic wine once, as a joke... I almost passed out, but thats a different story)

By far the hardest part is having to hide it. Mental illness was unnaccpetable at home due to my mother (who had her family destroyed by an 'Incident') can't see psychologist or take meds for same reason (Both were instrumental in the incident)... and living in a very redneck area... that sucked too because socially, anyone with problems is an outcast by default. Mental illness is treated as if it were contagious.

I just stop feeling emotions... my mind can easily come up all these ways in which I could manipulate those around me, however I just keep telling myself not to; my (strange as it may sound) atheistic faith is enough to hold me. Then I work on feeling emotions again, and after a little while I'm better. I'm very proud to say I've not attempted manipulation of ANY sort for years.
Gets difficult sometimes though; it is so very easy to gain practically anything, if you are willing to work on it and don't care about what happens to other people... but now I've built caring for others into my entire belief system. These days I rarely feel like becoming uncaring... it's a much nicer world.

The order inherit in randomness is what this Australian is all about. "the idea of the randomness, because that was an important realization" is very true. I try to be a good and moral person, but given different circumstances I could have ended up asshole; therefore I hesistate to pass judgement, but rarely hesitate to act; that one is an asshole excuses no actions. It is good that things are good for you now: Truly, to those that beleive in neither God nor Fate there is ourselves and ourselves only to bring about goodness in the world.

Best of luck.

I'm a bit of a newb to the A&A to post this, but they're interesting questions if you don't mind talking about it over the net.... my answers below.

1) Why did you become/ do you remain an atheist?

2) Morals: Where do you get them from?

Poll question: Atheist or Agnostic?

Answers:
1) To be the best person I can, as with no priori assumptions about what is right and wrong, I hope to be the best influence on society I possibly can be.If this really does somehow cost one (my) soul, then it is worth it.

2) Evolution. Strangely, most people ascribe survival of the fittest/ be a bastard crap to this.
Put bluntly, there are 6 billion people in the world. The chance that I am the fittest is approx 1/6000000000. So, the best we can do is make a society were we can all survive, were few are the lonely, this is the best way we can ensure our own, 'unfit' survival and happiness. To do this, we have good evolutionary systems: Happiness. It is something that exists in the mind and we should all be able to acheive. That is what governs my morals. How about you lot?