Latest Threads
Latest
Greatest Threads
Greatest
Lobby
Lobby
Journals
Journals
Search
Search
Options
Options
Help
Help
Login
Login
Home » Discuss » Journals » RoyGBiv » Read entry Donate to DU
Advertise Liberally! The Liberal Blog Advertising Network
Advertise on more than 70 progressive blogs!
RoyGBiv's Journal
Posted by RoyGBiv in General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009)
Fri Nov 07th 2008, 08:47 AM
Frankly, much of this could simply be dismissed as counter-factual theorizing based on a string of logical fallacies, but I'll avoid that since you so far seem to be making a good faith attempt at discussion. I will say, however, that you are advancing ideas that are not supportable based on the historical record or begin with historical truths and extrapolate out of them ideas that have no logical basis.

Your moral judgments are your own, and you're entitled to them, but your expressions of them mirror a politically driven narrative regarding Lincoln based on a myopic interpretation of the historical record, the origins of which you might want to investigate. (Start with a Lincoln Day address by Governor Warfield of Maryland in 1907.)

Finally, at various points here you conflate "Lincoln" and "white people." I'm ignoring most of that as a fallacious condemnation of Lincoln for the flaws of others.

Fair Question

The question to which I referred assumes the course of action you criticize Lincoln for not having taken was actually possible. It was not; therefore, your question is unfair. I've already explained why it was not possible but will be glad to detail it for you further if need be. More could be said, but that is enough.

Lincoln / Frederick Douglass

You seem to have an idealized image of Frederick Douglass that is on some level insulting to him, and you have an inaccurate view of the relationship he had with Lincoln.

Lincoln and Douglass were two sides of the same coin. They both understood clearly the meaning of pragmatism and the limits of their ability to effect change. Moreover they understood and lived their lives by a guiding principle that real change that benefits people takes time. That is, they understood the situational realities they faced and avoided the pitfalls of seeking ideological purity above all else.

Douglass had engaged in many of the same kinds of compromises with so-called principle that Lincoln did as he sought to advance his agenda, which was at first largely a personal agenda. As an escaped slave, he took the advice of his New England benefactors and fled to Ireland while those working on his behalf secured his legal manumission through payment to his former owner. He had once derided the US Constitution as an inherently flawed foundation of a slave republic and later recanted and reversed entirely his argument, in part because he realized using the legal system established to seek his goals was more effective over time than denying that system's legitimacy. In so doing he angered many former friends, some of whom would later be renowned for their acceptance of secession if it meant ridding the nation of slavery not by ending it but by excision of the offending parts.

Lincoln's "simply tolerating" Douglass is your own, flawed interpretation of a real relationship that was very different and far more complex than any few lines offered here could describe.

Paternalism

Once again, there is situational reality and there is fantasy. The reality was that several million people were enslaved by a system that both exploited them and provided the means by which they sustained life. People who have never known anything but that system need help and cooperation to be able to become a part of the larger society. A truly paternalistic attitude would claim that this was not possible and that this help would be perpetual. That is not what is being suggested here.

What will never stop amazing me about the criticism you offer is its twisted bent of logic. Those who express this critical view of Lincoln you do assail him for, essentially, not doing enough. Yet when it is explained what he actually did do, what he was trying to do, and why he was doing what he was doing, the explanation is passed off as paternalistic. You can try to have it both ways if you want, but it does little for your position.

Douglass, et al wanted slavery eradicated. At the same time they wanted the lives of those who would benefit directly from its end to have the ability to live lives of their own and seek their own version of the proverbial American Dream.

Now, there are those who have deluded themselves into believing this was a relatively simple thing. You imply it in your question about why Lincoln didn't just end slavery and enact equal rights. Passing the laws is not enough and passing them when the foundation for their enforcement is not present is sheer idiocy. All of that takes time, effort, an enormous amount of money, and at least a decently sized segment of populace willing and capable of further that enforcement. In historical timeline, Congress spent relatively little time on the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments. They were, after all, fairly simple statements. And then they created the Freedman's Bureau and failed to fund it properly, then charged the army with enforcing the Reconstruction Acts and forgot to notice that the army as a whole gave less than a full damn about securing black liberty and were more interested in punishing "the secesh."

And it was a disaster of epic proportions. Yet, for some reason, the idea remains that what needed to be done was just end slavery, pass a law or two, and let former slaves go about the business of getting on with their lives.

Lincoln's aim by mid-1862 was in dismantling the system. Abolishing slavery in and of itself was only one element of a vast system. Think "capitalism" and try to imagine, realistically, ending a capitalist system in a couple years by a dictatorial proclamation. It could be done, certainly, and a lot of people would end up dead as a result.

Hero

Why is Lincoln seen as a hero to blacks? Books have been written on this subject. The evolution of historical memory and commemoration is not something that can be explained easily or with absolute certainty.

The start of the explanation, however, begins with what Lincoln represented, which has already been stated. He was the first President even to allow for the idea of an end to slavery during his term of office. For the most part, those initially freed by his actions and the later actions of Congress who furthered their own agenda by couching their initiatives in the language of the bloody shirt embraced Lincoln as their own and elevated his status to a godlike proportion. His being murdered, importantly by someone who sought to perpetuate slavery, gave him the mark of a martyr.

From there, the road takes many paths.

To put it in the words of Frederick Douglass:

Despite the mist and haze that surrounded him; despite the tumult, the hurry, and confusion of the hour, we were able to take a comprehensive view of Abraham Lincoln, and to make reasonable allowance for the circumstances of his position. We saw him, measured him, and estimated him: not by stray utterances to injudicious and tedious delegations, who often tried his patience; not by isolated facts torn from their connection; not by any partial and imperfect glimpses caught at inappropriate moments; but by a broad survey in the light of the stern logic of great events -- and in view of that Divinity which shapes our ends rough-hew them as we will, we came to the conclusion that the hour and the man of our redemption had met in the person of Abraham Lincoln." -- NYT, April 22, 1876 at the unveiling of the Lincoln Monument.


Note that these remarks come from the same speech in which he referred to Lincoln as the "white man's President." Ironically, this passage is taken out of context often by DiLorenzo, et al to perform a "partial and imperfect glimpse" of what he intended to say.

To the question of what blacks were to do with Lincoln's memory, he added:

Though he loved Caesar less than Rome, though the Union was more to him than our freedom or our future, under his wise and beneficent rule we saw ourselves gradually lifted from the depths of slavery to the heights of liberty and manhood; under his wise and beneficent rule, and by measures approved and vigorously pressed by him, we saw that the handwriting of ages, in the form of prejudice and proscription, was rapidly fading away from the face of our whole country; under his rule, and in due time, about as soon after all as the country could tolerate the strange spectacle, we saw our brave sons and brothers laying off the rags of bondage, and being clothed all over in the blue uniforms of the soldiers of the United States; under his rule we saw two hundred thousand of our dark and dusky people responding to the call of Abraham Lincoln, and with muskets on their shoulders, and eagles on their buttons, timing their high footsteps to liberty and union under the national flag; under his rule we saw the independence of the black republic of Hati, the special object of slaveholding aversion and horror, fully recognized, and her minister, a colored gentleman, duly received here in the city of Washington; under his rule we saw the internal slave trade, which so long disgraced the nation, abolished, and slavery abolished in the District of Columbia; under his rule we saw for the first time the law enforced against the foreign slave trade, and the first slave trader hanged like any other pirate or murderer; under his rule, assisted by the greatest captain of our age, and his inspiration, we saw the Confederate States, based upon the idea that our race must be slaves, and slaves forever, battered to pieces and scattered to the four winds; under his rule, and in the fullness of time, we saw Abraham Lincoln, after giving the slaveholders three months' grace in which to save their hateful slave system, penning the immortal paper, which, though special in its language, was general in its principles and effect, making slavery forever impossible in the United States. Though we waited long, we saw all this and more. . .


Lincoln, the President

Presidents who are not acting as dictators are bound by laws, and laws prevented Lincoln from doing the moral and just thing in the manner desired by so many. Further, just what the moral and just thing to do was not agreed upon even among abolitionists, slaves, or, in hindsight, former slaves. To lay the entire question at Lincoln's feet is wrongheaded and ignores the bald fact that he, more than any American office holder before him, initiated with knowledge aforethought a series of events that would, eventually, lead to the election of President Obama, who will also be bound by laws.
Discuss (1 comments)
Profile Information
Profile Picture
RoyGBiv
Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your ignore list
DU Donor DU Donor
14345 posts
Member since Sat Apr 3rd 2004
Houston, Texas
Visitor Tools
Use the tools below to keep track of updates to this Journal.
 
Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals  |  Campaigns  |  Links  |  Store  |  Donate
About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy
Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.