You guys do realize that there actually are "Death Panels" - only their really called the Medical Insurance Industry that denies care and claims via Pre-Existing Conditions and Rescission? Obama has promised to Ban these practices - so I think Grandma is going to be just fine.
Lasted about 3 mins. Apparently they couldn't take a little Truthiness in their face?
Now I can no longer post on her wall, all I can do is issue a "Report" to complain about their posts. Maybe I should report them ALL as Libel and Gross Stupidity?
Last week the California Nurses Association released a study that shows that an average of 21% of claims made to Health Insurance Companies are DENIED.
More than one of every five requests for medical claims for insured patients, even when recommended by a patient's physician, are rejected by California's largest private insurers, amounting to very real death panels in practice daily in the nation's biggest state, according to data released Wednesday by the California Nurses Association/National Nurses Organizing Committee.
CNA/NNOC researchers analyzed data reported by the insurers to the California Department of Managed Care. From 2002 through June 30, 2009, six of the largest insurers operating in California rejected 47.7 million claims for care -- 22 percent of all claims.
So it turns out that Sarah Palin's Death Panel Fever Dream is Real. And it's been going on in the Private Insurance Market for years. Not too surprising that the Palin's response to this wonderful revelation in support of her hysterical claims - is to shoot the messenger.
Here's Dr. Laura Peeno describing her Congressional Testimony (which was shown in SickO) about how she was paid bonuses to deny legitimate care claims. (The Key moment in her Testimony is shown above)
To be fair not all these denied claims result in death, as they did with both Nataline Sarkisyan and Eric De La Cruz (only an estimated 18,000 per year actually die - which is greater than the number of criminal homicides every year) - they usually result in Bankruptcy - but even so, it's not acceptable that we let chronic illnesses drive people straight to the poor house, while Insurance Industries CEO take home salaries of $15 Million and more.
20% of the operating budget of most Insurance companies include the administrative costs include dong what Dr. Peeno did, going through the records of a patient and lookimg for reasons to deny them care, this process has generated an average 10.5% profit margin for this industry, making it ninth among the top 10 most profitable in the nation (according to the Fortune 500) #3 is Pharmecuticals at 15.8%, and #4 is Medical Equipment at 15.2% profit.
On this 8th Anniversary of the September 11th attacks on America, let us indeed Remember - but let us not cherry-pick what we recall.
Let us remember the fallen. Let us remember the brave. Let us remember the nobility and the sacrifice of those who fought to take control back of Flight 93, who rushed up the stairs in Tower 2 as it began to collapse and those who rushed back into the Pentagon as it burned.
But let us also Remember the Urgent Memo from Richard Clarke at the NSC to Condie Rice arguing that Osama Bin Laden and Al Qeada were an Imminent Danger. But he was ignored, then demoted.
How George Tenet, Clarke and others rode together in a desperate midnight meeting with Condie to warn her that "We Were Going to be Hit" and how this event was initially hidden from the 9-11 Commission until being revealed by Bob Woodward.
Let us remember the FBI Pheonix Memo which documented that there were some guys learning to fly planes who didn't seem all that interested in Landing them.
Let us remember the 52 Separate Warnings that were received by the FAA of an Al Qaeda Hijacking.
Let us Remember the August 6th PDB, which named the method and targets of an impending al Qeada attack. It did everything but include the date and time.
Let us recall how Osama Bin Laden escaped at Tora Bora, and still hasn't been killed or captured.
Let us recall the Downing Street Memos which revealed that the "Facts were being shaped to fit the Policy" in order to justify an invasion of Iraq, even though there was no evidence connecting that country to 9-11.
Let us recall both Abu Zubaydah and Khallid Sheik Mohammad were providing us with excellent intel before harsh tactics were used - but even after being waterboarded dozens of times (and in KSM case nearly dying at least once) they Still didn't provide any conclusive links between Saddam and Osama.
Let us recall that before the Iraq War began the head of Iraqi Intelligence, Tahir Jalil Habbush, had revealed to us that Saddam told the TRUTH to the United Nations when he said he didn't have any WMD, because he had destroyed it all way back in 1991- and instead of listening, the Bush paid him $500,000 in hush money and had him write a forged letter that attempted to link Saddam to 9-11!
Let us remember that no one suggested there were credible links between Saddam and 9-11 except for Ibn Sheihk al-Libi, and didn't do so until he was Buried Alive.
Let us remember: He Lied.
Let us recall how ABC and Foxnews tried to Blame Bill Clinton for being "asleep at the switch" and causing 9-11.
Let us recall how former Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld called all those who criticized his handling of the Iraq War "Morally and Intellectual Confused" - just before he was Fired.
Let us recall how the REAL Joseph Wilson was treated when he dared to point out that the Niger Receipt was probably a forgery and Saddam didn't have - and didn't try to buy any Yellowcake Uranium.
Let us remember the 4000 U.S. Troops - more than those we lost on 9-11 - who died in Iraq for no good reason.
Let us remember that the people that are screaming "Fascist", "Socialism", "Kenyan" and "YOU LIE" at our duly elected President - are the same ones who seem completely incapable of remembering all the above.
Tonight the President will deliver a critical Speech on Health Care to a joint sessions of Congress, and in it he will outline exactly what it is he expects Congress to deliver to his desk. It's expected to be a speech that will either make or break his Health Care Plan.
But I have an answer of my own.
Of course, before you can answer any question (like say "42"), you have to fully understand what the question is.
And in this case the real question is: What can Congress ultimately deliver to his desk when the progressive caucus demands access to a Public Health Care Option and the various Blue Dogs refuse to even consider it?
How about the Best of Both Worlds, the Public Option of Buying into Medicare if and when the Private Insurance Companies Fail to Perform. This I consider a Win/Win Scenario because if they do perform, we Win, and if they don't - We Sill Win.
As things currently stand we have 5 different Health Care Bills in Congress. 4 out of 5 (3 in the House and 1 in the Senate) include a Public Not-For-Profit Health Insurance Option which would be paid for by the premiums of it's members. One Bill from the Senate Finance Committee does not and instead offers some form of Non-Profit Co-ops as an option.
No Bill Currently includes Triggers, or even defines what a Trigger might look like - which leaves open a window of opportunity for us, the progressives, to define what an acceptable trigger might be and how short the time frame for it could have.
Most of the Bills are similar in that they all include a new Nation-Wide Health Care Exchange modeled on the Federal Employees Benefits Program which allows the leveraging of 10 Million Health Consumers to pool and leverage their buying power and keep costs down by purchasing in bulk.
If any of these plans pass, about 250 Million Americans would gain that type of buying power.
All of these plans ban the use of preexisting conditions to block access to care, and the preemptive canceling of care and claims simply because people get sick. Most Insurance Agencies currently spend about 20% of their overhead attempting to find ways to cancel coverage or claims, and has recently been shown by the California Nurses Association an average of about 30% of claim are denied using this tactic. All of the plans in addition to these reforms include some methodology to subsidize those with low-incomes, or those who are either unemployed or their employer refuses to provide Health Care Options for them.
There remains just one major bone of contention, should an additional Not-For-Profit Option be included as part of the Health Exchange and what would that plan look like?
Many different ideas have been debated from Medicare-For-All, a brand new Insurance Plan similar to Medicare Part A with it's own independent Trust Fund or some type of Public/Private Member Owned Co-operative?
The last issue has been whether such an Option should be available on Day One of Year One of the plan, or that it should kick-in automatically in subsequent years if Private Insurance Companies fail to meet certain criteria.
No More Death by Spreadsheet.
With Pre-Existing Conditions and unjustified claim-denials off the table, with a Health Exchange that will allow the type of Interstate Access to Care even Republicans like Mike Pence in the mix - there really isn't much more we can expect out of the Private Companies except better prices.
Some have said that using the Public Option as a loaded gun pointed at the Heads of the Insurance State, ready to fire at will - simply isn't enough.
Or is it?
As I posted a few days ago, there was a period in time when rate of Medical Inflation actually came back down to Earth - and it didn't take a Public Option to do it. All it took was the Threat of one.
In 1996 in the aftermath of the Clinton Era Health Care effort - and within 3 Years of it's initiation - the rate of increase for the cost of Health Care actually dropped below both the Consumer Price Index and the rate of Wage Inflation.
That Should be the Trigger Point.
If within one year of Day One, the Health Insurance Agencies can not repeat what they've previously done and bring costs down significantly - and keep them down - to levels matching or surpassing the CPI and WI the people of that state automatically are allowed to Buy-in to Medicare as an additional Option in their Health Exchange.
If prices begin to rise again in the future, as they did in the late 90's - the Trigger remains Operational and call be pulled at ANY TIME conditions are met.
Five Years, as Bob Dole has suggested, is too long and frankly unnecessary - the Industry has already shown it can move far more rapidly than that when it has incentive to do so.
Some say we shouldn't have to wait a year or two, that we need this NOW - but let's be realistic - a completely new Public Insurance Plan would take at least 2-3 Years to get up on it's feet and running. It would have to be Staffed. it would have to setup facilities and operational instructions. People would have to be trained. It would have to be FUNDED! No matter which way we go - no Option is going to be implemented immediately. So if we have to wait no matter what, we might as well have Medicare at the end of the rainbow waiting for us. It's already staffed, it's already funded - it's ready to go. Medicare would also have the necessary heft to positively impact the Market that the smaller weaker Co-Ops would lack, but would retain the trust of the American people as a system they can rely on.
All we have to do is Pull The Trigger.
I have stated before that I have some concerns with opening up Medicare because of the projected insolvency of it's trust fund, versus establishing an entirely new Public Plan with it's own fund. I still have that concern but it can be tempered. Part of the funds problem relates to the demographics of more an more Baby-Boomers entering the program and using it's services while fewer and fewer young people are paying into the system. Having younger people who would need fewer services buy-in to the fund would help shore it up considerably.
The one immediate benefit, besides saving on the start-up cost and time required for a brand new system is the fact that Medicare is something that people understand and trust. If we tell the screamers we're going to let their kids buy Medicare if they want, I don't think they'll have much left to scream about. (Even though we all know they still find something out in the fever swamp of WND to complain about) Another is the fact that the Savings would be immediate as I've posted before the costs of America current Public Health System (Medicare/Medicaid/VA/Tricare) is significantly less than it's Private System, particularly when compared to costs internationally.
Via the UN.
Top 10 Expenditure on health (% of GDP) Public Private Combined 6.9 8.5 15.4 - United States 7.8 5.2 13 - Occcupied Palestinian Territories 9.6 3.2 12.9 - Malawi 3.2 8.4 11.6 - Lebanon 6.7 4.8 11.5 - Switzerland 9.9 1.6 11.5 - Sao Tome and Principe 8.8 2.4 11.2 - Timor Leste 8.2 2.4 10.6 - Germany 8.2 2.3 10.5 - France 7.8 2.5 10.3 - Austria
On a per capita basis the U.S. currently spends (nearly) twice as much as any most other developed nations for Health Care.
(Top UN Ranked Countries by Human Development Index with Per Capital Health Care Expenses 2004) 1 Iceland 3,294 2 Norway $4,080 3 Australia $3,123 4 Canada $3,173 5 Ireland $2,618 6 Sweden $2,828 7 Switzerland $4,011 8 Japan $2,293 9 Netherlands $3,092 10 France $3,040 11 Finland $2,203 12 United States $6,096
The other part of the issue is yet again, the completely out-of-whack rate of Medical Inflation in the U.S. If we do manage to bring that Inflation Rate down, we improve the solvency of the Trust Fund - so this plan has a two-fer effect of helping to bring overall costs down for everyone and effectively Saving Medicare for the forseeable future.
Medicare isn't perfect, some doctors refuse to accept it because it pays less, and it still has problem with prescription drugs in Part D with the Big Fat Donut Hole and inability to bargain for better prices.
Still, this plan has the benefit that it might be something that both Anthony Weiner and Olympia Snowe could sign on to. Both Ben Nelson and Joe Lieberman oppose the Public Option but have gone on record that they could support it with a Trigger. Rather than further compromise and deal away the P.O. we should make hem ante-up - you get a trigger if we get Medicare for anyone willing to buy-in to it. We could have Everything We Want. How could those who've argued for a Co-Op say no to a Medicare Buy-in as an alternative? We could even toss in some token Tort Reform and Medical Savings Accounts as a sweetener and anything is possible - even significant serious Health Care Reform in our Lifetime.
I'm sure Barack Obama will deliver a barn-burner of a Speech Tonight, but when it's all over - I strongly suspect what comes out of Congress will look a lot like what I've just described here.
Posted by Vyan in Health
Mon Sep 07th 2009, 01:38 PM
On This Week Republican Mike Pence made a Startling Statement.
Pence: There's not a Public Option in the Federal Employee Benefits plan. The reality is that Federal Employees, all 10 Million of us, get to choose between five different private insurance plans. And they're affordable because Federal Employees are permitted to buy insurance on a Nation-wide basis
Yeah, if we could only give people what Federal Employees have...
Rep Pence - for once - is exactly correct. What he doesn't seem to realize is the ability to match what Federal Employees currently have with a Nation-Wide Health Insurance Exchange - is already in HR 3200!
From HR 3200
SEC. 201. ESTABLISHMENT OF HEALTH INSURANCE EXCHANGE; OUTLINE OF DUTIES; DEFINITIONS.
(a) Establishment- There is established within the Health Choices Administration and under the direction of the Commissioner a Health Insurance Exchange in order to facilitate access of individuals and employers, through a transparent process, to a variety of choices of affordable, quality health insurance coverage, including a public health insurance option.
SEC. 202. EXCHANGE-ELIGIBLE INDIVIDUALS AND EMPLOYERS.
(a) Access to Coverage- In accordance with this section, all individuals are eligible to obtain coverage through enrollment in an Exchange-participating health benefits plan offered through the Health Insurance Exchange unless such individuals are enrolled in another qualified health benefits plan or other acceptable coverage.
(b) Definitions- In this division:
(1) EXCHANGE-ELIGIBLE INDIVIDUAL- The term `Exchange-eligible individual' means an individual who is eligible under this section to be enrolled through the Health Insurance Exchange in an Exchange-participating health benefits plan and, with respect to family coverage, includes dependents of such individual.
(2) EXCHANGE-ELIGIBLE EMPLOYER- The term `Exchange-eligible employer' means an employer that is eligible under this section to enroll through the Health Insurance Exchange employees of the employer (and their dependents) in Exchange-eligible health benefits plans.
In the Kennedy HELP Bill this is called a "Gateway".
What Rep Penee fails to understand or is willfully misrepresenting - among many things - is that the Public Option would simply be one plan in addition to the others in the Exchange, so when he talks about the possibility of Employers dropping coverage and forcing their employees into the Public Option he simply doesn't know what he's TALKING about. If Employers drop coverage (ala Walmart), their employees can join the exchange themselves as individuals, meanwhile the employer would have to pay an 8% payroll tax which would go to subsidizing those employees who can't afford to buy in own their own with the same buying power that their employer had.
Pence like Rudy (Their gonna Pull-the-Plug On Grandma!) Guiliani and Sarah (Death Panels for my Baby!) Palin seem to continue to hang onto the canard that limits on Malpractice Payouts (Tort Reform) will bring down costs, but there are many logical fallacies with this. Doctors pay for Malpractice Insurance, not patients. Many states which have introduced such reforms haven't seen any savings from them. Studies by the GAO and CBO have also found that such efforts do not reduce costs, in contrast to claims from private studies.
GAO: Because this study was focused on only one condition and on a hospital setting, it cannot be extrapolated to the larger practice of medicine. Given the limited evidence, reliable cost savings estimates cannot be developed.
CBO: When CBO applied the methods used in the study of Medicare patients hospitalized for two types of heart disease to a broader set of ailments, it found no evidence that restrictions on tort liability reduce medical spending. Moreover, using a different set of data, CBO found no statistically significant difference in per capita health care spending between states with and without limits on malpractice torts.
Another thing that has driven the Deathers/Screamers crazy is the fact that Federal Employees, people on Medicare and the VA are excluded from the Exchanges. (Which they confuse with the Public Option and then they scream - Why doesn't Congress have to join the Public Death Option?) But the fact is they don't have to join the Exchange because the Federal Employee Benefits System already IS an Exchange and that a Public Option available to the exchange would also be available to Federal Employees in their existing system.
It's an Option - not a Requirement.
Contrary to what Senator Dole says, the argument that private insurance will need Five Years to remove Pre-existing conditions and other impediments to good care is simply a non-starter. Such practices are Banned on Day One under HR 3200.
SEC. 111. PROHIBITING PRE-EXISTING CONDITION EXCLUSIONS.
A qualified health benefits plan may not impose any pre-existing condition exclusion (as defined in section 2701(b)(1)(A) of the Public Health Service Act) or otherwise impose any limit or condition on the coverage under the plan with respect to an individual or dependent based on any health status-related factors (as defined in section 2791(d)(9) of the Public Health Service Act) in relation to the individual or dependent.
They are also banned from terminating your policy simply because you get sick.
SEC. 112. GUARANTEED ISSUE AND RENEWAL FOR INSURED PLANS.
The requirements of sections 2711 (other than subsections (c) and (e)) and 2712 (other than paragraphs (3), and (6) of subsection (b) and subsection (e)) of the Public Health Service Act, relating to guaranteed availability and renewability of health insurance coverage, shall apply to individuals and employers in all individual and group health insurance coverage, whether offered to individuals or employers through the Health Insurance Exchange, through any employment-based health plan, or otherwise, in the same manner as such sections apply to employers and health insurance coverage offered in the small group market, except that such section 2712(b)(1) shall apply only if, before nonrenewal or discontinuation of coverage, the issuer has provided the enrollee with notice of non-payment of premiums and there is a grace period during which the enrollees has an opportunity to correct such nonpayment. Rescissions of such coverage shall be prohibited except in cases of fraud as defined in sections 2712(b)(2) of such Act.
As we move closer to Wednesday's big speech it seems that the big argument isn't about any of these provisions, it's about whether have a public option immediately or we have one automatically triggered somewhere down the road.
To me that's a Win/win.
As was shown during the Clinton attempt at Health Care reform - Simply the Threat of a Public Based system to compete with the current private insurance companies was enough to significantly drive down Health Care costs. It doesn't even have to be implemented to bring the costs down because Hillary care didn't even pass - but it worked.
Here's the proof.
In 1996, after several years of Capital Hill Battles, the rate of Inflation for Health Care actually dropped below the rate of inflation for Wages and the Consumer Price Index. That is what our trigger should be. In fact let's make this simple and take Olympia Snowe's idea and match it with Anthony Weiner's - let's require Private Insurance to get their inflation rate down to and below the CPI and general Wage inflation rate (around 2-3%) within one or two years And KEEP IT THERE or the following year that state has the option to allow all it's citizens - regardless of age - to BUY-IN to Medicare if they want to.
If you listen to Bob Dole - who I suspect is On Medicare right now - that seems like an idea that even some Republicans actually might go for. Even Conserva-Dem Ben Nelson has expressed support for it.
The question is - will Progressives be willing to wait a year or two if we get just about everything we want in the meantime? The Good is not always the Enemy of the Perfect.
The first issue is that the 9-11 caller does not ever say "Two Black Men", in fact only in response to the dispatchers question does she say "One looked kinda Hispanic". She also admits that she sees a set of suitcases outside and that she doesn't know whether they actually live there or not.
When I arrived at 17 Ware street I radioed ECC and asked that they have the caller meet me at the front door to this residence. SNIP . As I reached the door, a female voice called out to me. I turned and looked in the direction of the voice and observed a white female, later identified as Lucia Whalen. Whalen, who was standing on the sidewalk in front of the residence, held a wireless telephone in her hand and told me that it was she who called. She went on to tell me that the observed what appeared to be two black males with backpacks on the porch of 17 Ware street.
Attorney Wendy Murphy, who represents Whalen, also categorically rejected part of the police report that said Whalen talked with Sgt. James Crowley, the arresting officer, at the scene.
"Let me be clear: She never had a conversation with Sgt. Crowley at the scene," Murphy told CNN by phone. "And she never said to any police officer or to anybody 'two black men.' She never used the word 'black.' Period."
She added, "I'm not sure what the police explanation will be. Frankly, I don't care. Her only goal is to make it clear she never described them as black. She never saw their race. ... All she reported was behavior, not skin color."
So that's one "Lie/Mistake" made by Sgt Crowley. Whalen never spoke to him, never said anything about "Backpacks" (actually it was Suitcases which she mentioned to the dispatcher) and never said anything about "Black Men". She was also technically wrong about the "Hispanic", because Gates driver actually *is* black.
Another is the "Yelling" issue. According to Gates, he was just returning from China where he contracted Bronchitis, and as a result - He Couldn't Yell".
The police report says I was engaged in loud and tumultuous behavior. That’s a joke. Because I have a severe bronchial infection which I contracted in China and for which I was treated and have a doctor’s report from the Peninsula hotel in Beijing. So I couldn’t have yelled. I can’t yell even today, I’m not fully cured.
From Gates view "Uncooperative" means he first refused to come out of the house - which he had every right to do.
I’m saying ‘You need to send someone to fix my lock.’ All of a sudden, there was a policeman on my porch. And I thought, ‘This is strange.’ So I went over to the front porch still holding the phone, and I said ‘Officer, can I help you?’ And he said, ‘Would you step outside onto the porch.’ And the way he said it, I knew he wasn’t canvassing for the police benevolent association. All the hairs stood up on the back of my neck, and I realized that I was in danger. And I said to him no, out of instinct. I said, ‘No, I will not.’
My lawyers later told me that that was a good move and had I walked out onto the porch he could have arrested me for breaking and entering.
in his Police Report Crowley states:
As I stood in plain view of this man, later identified as Gates, I asked if he would come out onto the porch and speak with me? He replied "No, I Wil Not." He demanded to know who I was, I responded "Sgt Crowley of the Cambridge Police" and that I was investigating a report of a "Break-in in progress". He responded with "Why, because I'm a Black Man in America?"
On this they agree, then comes the "Yelling"...
I asked Mr. Gates if there was anyone else in the residence. While Yelling, he told me it was none of my business and accused me of being a racist police officer. While i was led to believe that Gates was lawfully in the residence I was quite surprised and confused by the behavior he exhibited toward me.
I think Gates was quite surprised to have Cop questioning him in his own house.
Eventually Gates provides his ID, after requesting Crowley's ID and not receiving it. Identify established Crowley begins to leave.
As I began to walk through the Foyer of the front door, I could hear Gates demanding my name. I again told Gates that I would speak with him outside. My reason for wanting to leave the residence was that Gates was Yelling very Loud and the acoustics of the kitchens and foyer were making it difficult for me to transmit pertinent information to ECC or other responding units.
Ok, as we can hear when Crowley is speaking on the radio - this would appear to be Lie Number two - and his including this "detail" in the report seems more like an after-the-fact justification for luring Gates outide where a ton of officers (requested by Crowley) were waiting outside.
The thing that really betrays Crowley's Attitude is his statement as his commences the arrest.
I warned Gates that he was becoming disorderly. Gates ignored my warning and continued to yell, which drew the attention of the officers and the citizens, who appeared surprised and alarmed at Gates outburst. For the second time I warned Gates to calm down while I withdrew my department issued handcuffs from their case. Gates again ignored my warning and continued to yell at me, it was at this time that I informed Gates that he was under arrest. Gates initially resisted my attempts to handcuff him, yelling that he was "disabled" and would fall without his cane. After the cuffs were properly applied Gates complained that they were too tight
"Disabled"? What at sensitive guy.
Gates version of this sequence is this:
It looked like an ocean of police had gathered on my front porch. There were probably half a dozen police officers at this point. The mistake I made was I stepped onto the front porch and asked one of his colleagues for his name and badge number. And when I did, the same officer said, ‘Thank you for accommodating our request. You are under arrest.’ And he handcuffed me right there. It was outrageous. My hands were behind my back I said, ‘I’m handicapped. I walk with a cane. I can’t walk to the squad car like this.’ There was a huddle among the officers; there was a black man among them. They removed the cuffs from the back and put them around the front.
According to Gate there were No Warnings, Crowley did not depart the residence walk down the steps and then only walk back up the steps after Gates refused multiple requests to "Calm Down" because he was now "disturbing the peace" (and coincidentally embarrassing Crowley in front of his fellow officers and the public).
That's Lie Number Three.
Also Gates does use a Cane to walk, this is visible in the film footage and was confirmed by Mellisa Harris-Lacewell in her article about Gates in The Nation. Yes, he really is "Disabled" - you officious prick. This portion of the report is clearly intended to paint Gates as a chronic "complainer" and "exaggerator".
The last point is that in the Police Report both Sgt Crowley and Officer Figueroa - who attempts to "corroborate" Crowley's claims - the one truly offensives statement made by Gates was "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS TO BLACK MEN IN AMERICA" which Figueroa repeats twice in his portion of the report within a single paragraph.
‘What is your name, and what is your badge number?’ and he refused to respond. I asked him three times, and he refused to respond. And then I said, ‘You’re not responding because I’m a black man, and you’re a white officer.’ That’s what I said. He didn’t say anything.
...(Gates is then Arrested)
A crowd had gathered, and as they were handcuffing me and walking me out to the car, I said, ‘Is this how you treat a black man in America?’
From Gates perspective it wasn't an accusation prior to his arrest, it was a question after the fact. The way that both Crowley and Figueroa attempt to distort this statement into a justification for the arrest itself is more than a little distasteful.
It may be that actual racism wasn't involved in this incident, but it's also clear that the catalyst for this was Crowley's Attitude and Tone of Voice which is initially what set Gates on edge by his own admission. Gates may have over-reacted, but he apparently wasn't as "Tumultuous" as Crowley claims he was, merely annoying. Yes, Crowley he did initially give Gates his name (or maybe e didn't since we only have his word on that), but he repeatedly refused to provide his ID and actually Prove he was a Genuine COP to Gates while invading his home. He then places multiple lies on his police report, so it seems to me Gates probably read his tone of voice and the subtext of his intent correctly.
If the Officers Union really wanted a "Trial of Fact" considering both Gates and Crowley agree that the crucial portion of the exchange occurred before both the police and the public, including Lucia Whalen, I think they would seriously regret if any of this had actually came before a judge.
This weekend Former Republican House Speaker Newt Gingrich (who was forced to leave his post due to an scandal with infidelity) spoke for three hours in Virginia and "Rediscovery God in America" and in the midst of his talk actually claimed that American are now "Surrounded by Paganism - as if that is somehow a bad thing.
GINGRICH: I am not a citizen of the world. I am a citizen of the United States because only in the United States does citizenship start with our creator. <...> I think this is one of the most critical moments in American history. We are living in a period where we are surrounded by paganism.
He along with other speakers such as Mike Huckabee also railed against...
the continuing availability of abortion, the spread of gay rights, and attempts to remove religion from American public life and school history books.
Yes, he attacked abortion just days after a tragic abortion murder. Way to root for the good guys Newt. He claimed, like a great many American Theocrats that America is a "Christian Nation" and ties that argument back to the Declaration of Independence.
Gingrich, now a consultant and author, said the ties to religion in American government date to the Declaration of Independence, when Thomas Jefferson wrote that men are endowed by God with certain inalienable rights.
It is true he wrote that, but what he didn't write - what was specifically left out was exactly "Which God" he was talking about.
Newt is allegedly a student of History, but in a recent Dkos post another Historian, one far from being so high profile as Newt, broke down the true origins of American Religiousity in a response to a Theocrat Relative - and it's nothing like what Gingrich and Huckabee describe.
First in response to a blast email which lists all the state Preambles which mention "Almight God" our heroine Laine presented the Treaty of Tripoli.
Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
Authored by American diplomat Joel Barlow in 1796, the treaty was sent to the floor of the Senate, June 7, 1797, where it was read aloud in its entirety and unanimously approved. John Adams, having seen the treaty, signed it and proudly proclaimed it to the Nation. (Worth noting that we have not lived up to those words.)
This nation was founded on freedom of religion for ALL- not just Christians. The Preamble for Oregon says:
Oregon 1857, Bill of Rights, Article I Section 2. All men shall be secure in the Natural right, to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their consciences
The dictates of my conscience, not yours.
The response from her theocrat aunt was pretty much what you'd expect, a personal attack laced with accusations against a long dead parent for their failings in raising such an "Anti-God" Child. To this Laine responded with something I think every person who is confronted with this type of rabid Christo-Facism should have memorized.
~The settlers who came here from England in the 17th century came for various reasons; some as entrepreneurs, some looking for land of their own, some for religious reasons. The latter are the ones we usually think of- hardy Pilgrims coming to the new land for religious freedom. Except not quite- those coming from England came because they held to faith other than the Church of England (Anglican, here in the States we call them Episcopalians). They did not come for freedom, per se. They came to establish a community where their sect would be the official Church. The various early Colonies were a mish-mash of different sects. What was a legal religion in one might be outlawed in another. (Don't believe me? Read up about Ann Hutchinson or Roger Williams- they were both expelled from Massachusetts for failing to toe the Puritan party line.)
~The Founders (who signed the Declaration of Independence) and the Framers (those who helped draft the Constitution) were a very interesting group of men. They came from all walks of life, and all sorts of backgrounds, ethnic and religious. The greatest number of them were Episcopalians, and there were also Presbyterians, Congregationalists, a few Methodists, Lutherans, etc. There were also several Deists- among them George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin (though Franklin would occasionally cop to being basically agnostic).
~I have to explain here what 'Deism' is. Deism is a religious and philosophical belief that a supreme god created the universe, and that this and other religious truth can be determined using reason and observation of the natural world alone, without the need for faith. Deists generally reject the notion of divine interventions in human affairs - such as by miracles and revelations. It is a handy vague vision of God than excludes no one.
~Now, go back to the Colonies and their disparate religions. One of the difficulties in putting together any federation of the colonies was the religious issue. And this is why the various documents that stitch together our country refer only vaguely to a non-specific God. Because they are trying to avoid what we would now call a Balkanization along religious lines. By using the very vague Deistic references, they can go honor to God without invoking sectarian conflict. (Pretty smart guys, those Founders.)
If you were to adopt the Christianity of the original settlers - ignoring the existing religion of the Native American's who had already been here for countless centuries - the State Religion of the United States would most likely be Puritan. Or maybe Quaker.
These sects who fled English shores for America to avoid being persecuted by the Church Of England (C.O.E.) aka Anglican. That Church itself only came into existence as an offshoot of the Catholic Church when King Henry VIII (now made slightly more famous by Showtime's The Tudors) wanted to be able to divorce his first wife Catherine, but was barred from doing so by the Roman Pope.
In forming the C.O.E. Henry made himself it's Pope, and then proceeded to divorce and/or behead 6 several more wives. In the meanwhile he made it an act of Treason to oppose and criticize his action in splitting with Rome, yet one Protestant author named Dr. William Tyndale did criticize Henry and was eventually executed for it. Reportedly as he died he exclaimed, just as he was strangled to death and later burned at the stake - "Lord! Open" the King of England's eyes!"
So yet again we see the problem and the danger of "Which God" the Declaration and various Preambles describe, is it the Catholic/Protestant/ Anglican/Episcopalian/Puritan/Quaker/Jewish/Muslim that Thomas Jefferson was referring to? Since he himself was a Deist, the not so simple answer is All of Them and none of them.
The point was the allow the Freedom to persue the Religion of our individual choice, but not to attempt to force that choice upon others. America is designed to specifically NOT to have a single Church authorized for the state or else we may face the type of orthodox religious wrath that befell Dr. Tyndale.
Dr. Warren Hern : There is no middle-ground with people who want to kill you. The Only Difference between the American Anti-Abortion Movement and the Taliban - is about 8000 Miles.
In following up on the Tiller Assassination story I realized that elements seemed familiar. Less than a week or so ago, before the shooting I had seen one of those late night crime stories about a middle-aged woman who had been put on trial for shooting a doctor.
The story focused not so much on her crime, which didn't kill the doctor in question but merely injured him or her claims in court that her lousy aim should be considered a mitigating faster, instead the piece focused on her connections to an underground network of rabid anti-abortionists. Including Paul Hill who had shot and killed a clinic physician and his escort with a shotgun in Pensacola Florida.
She had written to Paul, and to other incarcerated anti-abortion killers such as Michael Griffin. Through them she had gained encouragement, and even direction - but the prosecutors were frustrated in proving conspiracy charges.
Here's a sample tribute video I found to Paul Hill.
I had forgotten about the report, then after the the Tiller shooting I started to wonder and decided to look up the name of the person mentioned by Rachel Maddow as having previously shot Dr. Tiller in both arms - that person was Shelly Shannon - the same person from the report I'd seen last week - and what I immediately found was this...
JOIN THE ARMY - or -
How to Destroy a Killing Center if You're Just an Old Grandma Who Can't Even Get the Fire Started in Her Fireplace
by Shelley Shannon
*Please re-type or photocopy this and burn the copy you were given, with the fingerprints thereof. Thanks.
What followed was quite literally a how to/confession of a Terrorist Act, the fire-bombing of on a Women's Clinic. It's almost comically inept and pathetic - but still in many ways that only makes it's deadliness even more serious. Murder and Arson for Dummy Grandma's! Estelle Getty with suicide bomb strapped on. Silly, but still Deadly.
"Photocopy this then burn the pages" -- it's almost like something from "Get Smart" with the Cone of Silence. Shelley Shannon Super-Sleuth. Not exactly. James Bond and AQ Khan she ain't. Hence the Prison! Heaven help us if someone whose actually seen an entire season of any version of CSI or Criminal Minds gets hooked up with these dullards.
I found another shock/irony when I read the tagline, because as far as I know Shelley Shannon is serving prison time until 2018 for her attack on Dr. Tiller and a set of subsequence fires and her Muy Talibanish acid attacks.
To contact: e-mail: Glory2Jesus@ArmyofGod.com Telephone 1-757-204-4454 Or write to: Rev. Donald Spitz Pro-Life Virginia P.O. Box 2876 Chesapeake VA 23327
Do people in prison get email? Also - uh- "Rev. Donald Spitz"?
Again, something strangely familiar. Several weeks ago I wrote a post about the the Knoxville Tennesee Gunman who killed two people and injured fived in a gun attack on a Unitarian Church who was "Trying to Kill Liberals".
I got a response on my personal blog - It was from a Rev. Donald Spitz. He said...
Don't tell me about Eric Rudolph. At least he stopped the babykilling abortionist from murdering any more children. What have you done to stopped these babies from being murdered?
How many straight children have been molested and murdered by homosexuals like you? A lot. How many Christians have been assaulted by homosexuals like you because you didn't like the way they voted? A lot. How many Christian churches have been burned down by homosexuals like you because you disagree with the Holy Bible? A lot. Matthew Shepard is in eternal hell fire now and will never get out.
Whatever you think, you will not be able to change God's Word and will one day have to pay the price for not believing what God has written.
Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
When I clicked on his name it showed this... (NSFW)
Sweet guy. At the time I blew it off, there are plenty of nuts and fruits on the net. No biggie.
I'm not blowing it off anymore. This is like having Ramzi Yousef leave a Firepie on your front porch.
His blog - http://stopbabykillingabortionist.blogspot... / has only three posts, and they're about as smart and coherent as the one he left on my blog praising Eric Rudolph and calling me Gay (which I'm not, particularly after 17 years of nice simple Opposite Marriage).
By the way, go back to that Paul Hill Tribute Video, notice anything... like "by RevSpitz"?
DING! DING! DING!
Yet another Super-sleuth.
As it turns our Rev Spitz runs the entire Army of God website which features include the Official "Authorized" Websites for Paul Hill, Eric Rudolph and several other Anti-Abortion Heroes Murderous zealots as well as references to an Army of God Manual for Anti-Abortion "Warriors" - think of it as an Anarchist Cookbook for Christian Wing-nut Terrorists Dumbasses - a copy of which was first found in the possession of Shelley Shannon during her apprehension for the previous shooting of Dr. Tiller. It's like - "Need proof I'm a potential mass-murder - here's my instruction manual with nice neat little hand-written notes in the margins, take me away!".
The sites current headline that says..
George Tiller will never murder another child again.
Abortionist George Tiller, now in eternal hell fire for shedding the blood of innocent children
Ok, so I get what The Donald has to say... but what do others say about him? Others like say, the Southern Poverty Law Center?
The Rev. Donald Spitz has never been a pleasant man. Considered a wild-eyed extremist even among his colleagues on the radical anti-abortion scene, the head of Pro-Life Virginia and long-time principal of the Army of God Web site (www.armyofgod.com ) applauds the murderers of physicians, clinic workers and secretaries.
He rails against "filthy faggots" and "lesbos." Islam is "Satanic," Arabs are "Rag-Heads," and Muslims "should not be allowed to live in the United States." New York City is a "sex perverted cesspool" that richly deserved Sept. 11.
But there is one type of vicious group hatred Don Spitz has always denied — the "false accusations of racism" against blacks "put out by desperate babykilling abortionists." If a black man accepts Christ, "then that man is my brother."
Well, maybe. And maybe not.
...
Yeah, on top of everything else, the Christo-Fascism, the homophobia and being a signatory on a "defensive action statement" declaring the murder of abortionist as "justifiable" - Good Ole' RevSpitz is a White Supremacist. Lovely.
We do have a American Taliban, and they aren't hiding very far from the surface. Not at all. And if I was member of the Joint Counter Terrorist Task Force, I think I know where to direct a little NSA Surveillance or at least y'know - a WARRANT - since he and 30 others signed a open DEATH THREAT ON HIS FELLOW AMERICAN CITIZENS.
"We, the undersigned, declare the justice of taking all godly action necessary to defend innocent human life including the use of force. We proclaim that whatever force is legitimate to defend the life of a born child is legitimate to defend the life of an unborn child. We assert that if Michael Griffin did in fact kill David Gunn, his use of lethal force was justifiable provided it was carried out for the purpose of defending the lives of unborn children. Therefore, he ought to be acquitted of the charges against him."
* Kenneth Arndt, Windham, N.H.
* Mary Beddingfield, Pittsburgh, Pa.
* Dan Bray, Bowie, Md.
* Donna Bray, Bowie, Md.
* Michael Bray, Bowie, Md.
* John Brockhoeft, prisoner, Burlington, Ky.
* Andrew Burnett, Portland, Ore.
* Thomas Carleton, prisoner, Billerica, Mass.
* David Craig, Hope, Ind.
* David Crane, Norfolk, Va.
* Paul deParrie, Portland, Ore.
* Regina Dinwiddie, Kansas City, Mo. * Michael Dodds, Kansas
* Henry Felisone, Queens, N.Y.
* Joseph Foreman, Bluejay, Calif.
* Mary Friberg, New Brighton, Minn.
* David Graham, Olathe, Kan.
* Paul J. Hill, prisoner, Pensacola, Fla.
* Michael Jarecki, Brushton, N.Y.
* Bill Koehler, North Bergen, N.J.
* Dave Leach, Des Moines, Iowa
* C. Roy McMillan, Jackson, Miss.
* Mike Meyer, Cincinnati, Ohio
* Jacob Miller, Tampa, Fla.
* Joseph F. O'Hara, Pennsylvania
* Robert Pearson, West Long Branch, N.J.
* Tony Piso, Forest Hill, N.Y.
* Cathy Ramey, Portland, Ore.
*
* Dawn Stover, Portland, Ore.
* Matt Trewhella, Milwaukee, Wisc.
* David Trosch, Mobile, Ala.
* Mike Walker, Alabama
* Valerie Zyskowski, Pittsburgh, Pa.
I'm just saying... when people openly declare they support the commission of a capital offense, maybe we should be listening to them, maybe we should let them Know we're listening them, and that they will be held accountable for their actions.
P.S. His site sucks. ugly colors, bad design, shitty fonts, cheesy graphics, stupid ideas. (I had to completely re-work it just so that it would even post here because of all the trash in the code.) Like something a 12-year-old in a 50-year-old body would make. Perfectly Fitting.
I know this plea will go unheeded, yet I make it still... STOP THE MADNESS!
Just as we saw during the 2008 campaign with "Marxist/Social/Muslim-ism", wild and unfounded accusations of "judicial activism and racist" are now flying about like spittle from a just punched boxer.
It's got to stop. We have to end the parade of horrid tableaux such as this one (see video of Bob Shrum taking Pat Buchanan to the Woodshed for a nice Hot Cup of (Epic Fail!)
Buchanan pushes two primary arguments which have become religious dogma to many on the Right 1) Sotomayor thinks Latina's are "Superior" to Whites and 2) Sotomayor implemented some form of "Reverse Discrimination" against the mostly White (and one Latino) Fire-fighter in New Haven.
Point one comes from this lecture given by Judge Sotomayor at UC Berkeley on the subject of what means to be a Latina Judge.
The offending line, as we've all heard/read it.
I would hope that a wise Latina woman with the richness of her experiences would more often than not reach a better conclusion than a white male who hasn't lived that life.
Looking purely at this many have latched only three key words "Latina - Better (than) White" and in doing so the ignore literally everything else in the sentence. Let's just for the sake of discussion try this sentence written race neutrally.
I would hope that a wise (person) with the richness of (their) experiences would more often than not reach a better conclusion than (another person) who hasn't lived that life.
What this simple modification shows that even if you were to change the sentence around an make the "better" person white - it still rings true. A person with rich life experiences honestly Should make better decisions drawing from those experience than someone without them, regardless of who they are -- however the reality is that sometimes they don't.
Let's again focus on the beginning of the sentence... "I would hope..."
The clear indication of this phrase is that she has her doubts that this will be the case, that a wise person with rich experiences - even if Latina - would make better decisions than a person without those experiences - even if White.
She Doubts this premise.
The simple truth is that Judge Sotomayor's point is almost exactly opposite to what those who scream RACIST in the night have claimed. This is further illustrated if you dare look at, gasp, the entire paragraph.
Whether born from experience or inherent physiological or cultural differences, a possibility I abhor less or discount less than my colleague Judge Cedarbaum, our gender and national origins may and will make a difference in our judging. Justice O'Connor has often been cited as saying that a wise old man and wise old woman will reach the same conclusion in deciding cases. I am not so sure Justice O'Connor is the author of that line since Professor Resnik attributes that line to Supreme Court Justice Coyle. I am also not so sure that I agree with the statement. First, as Professor Martha Minnow has noted, there can never be a universal definition of wise. Second, I would hope that a wise Latina woman with the richness of her experiences would more often than not reach a better conclusion than a white male who hasn't lived that life.
Clearly she's saying that our backgrounds can make a difference, but not that they necessarily will or that that difference will also be a positive one. This is further shown as we go to - gulp - the very next paragraph.
Let us not forget that wise men like Oliver Wendell Holmes and Justice Cardozo voted on cases which upheld both sex and race discrimination in our society. Until 1972, no Supreme Court case ever upheld the claim of a woman in a gender discrimination case. I, like Professor Carter, believe that we should not be so myopic as to believe that others of different experiences or backgrounds are incapable of understanding the values and needs of people from a different group. Many are so capable. As Judge Cedarbaum pointed out to me, nine white men on the Supreme Court in the past have done so on many occasions and on many issues including Brown.
This cements the point home, she is clearly not saying that Latina's are better than Whites, she's simply saying that she would HOPE that they would make as wise a decision as previous White MEN on the the court such as Holmes and Cordoza (who was technically of Portugese descent) have clearly shown in the past.
In other words, You CAN'T judge a book by it's cover. People can surprise you.
The second of Pat's points is in regards to the Ricci Case, where just 7 Figherfighters our of 70 applications were to be granted promotions to Lieutenant and Captain based largely on their exam results. For some reason, all except for 2 Latinos were White - none were Black.
The city had attempted to craft a race neutral test, but when the results were so clearly racially-biased the city decided to throw that test out and craft a new one. 17 White Firefighters and 1 Latino sued. The initial judge threw out the case arguing...
"The decision to disregard the test results affected all applicants equally," "New Haven did not race-norm the scores , they simply decided to start over," the judge said. "While the evidence shows that race was taken into account in the decision not to certify the test results, the result was race-neutral: all the test results were discarded."
A Three-Judge Panel on the 2nd Circuit (which included Sotomayer) made the follow statement in their upholding the lower court.
"We are not unsympathetic to the plaintiffs' expression of frustration," the panel wrote. "Mr. Ricci, for example, who is dyslexic, made intensive efforts that appear to have resulted in his scoring highly on one of the exams, only to have it invalidated. But it simply does not follow that he has a viable Title VII claim."
The appeals court panel concluded that city officials acted within the law when they threw out the test results. They were simply trying to fulfill their obligations under anti-discrimination laws when confronted with test results that produced a disproportionate racial impact, the panel said.
Apparently Judge Sotomayer asked quite a few questions during the hearing including...
“We’re not suggesting that unqualified people be hired, the city’s not suggesting that,” she told Ms. Torre. But “if your test is going to always put a certain group at the bottom of the pass rate so they’re never, ever going to be promoted, and there is a fair test that could be devised that measures knowledge in a more substantive way, then why shouldn’t the city have an opportunity to try to look and see if it can develop that?”
Rather than being an "activist" judge who would have overturned precedent to meet her own whims, Judge Sotomayor voted with the majority to continue the established rule of trying to make race neutral attempts to avoid a disparate impact on minority applicants.
The fact is that sometimes discrimination doesn't come in the form of Bull Connor with a pack of dogs, sometimes it comes in small little conceits of clubiness, additional access and resources to the insiders or simply a tendency to "norm" everything to the tastes, style and preference of the majority to the detriment of any outsider/minority. Sometimes this is completely unwitting and sometimes it's deliberately Covert since the Civil Rights Act long ago made obvious acts of discrimination criminally and civilly liable.
These days bias is rarely, if ever, overtly and obviously shown by anyone in authority.
What we also want to avoid is over-reacting to the potential civil liability by assuming bias when none is necesarily present. It's in many ways a "Catch-22" of trying to end continue bias, without creating a NEW bias (so-called "Reverse Racism") .
But then again, what if those who do want to implement deliberate anti-minority (or majority) discrimination have simply figured out new and better ways to game the system? Should we just ignore the evidence when a situation as stark and hard to believe as the New Haven test results appear? Can it really be true that not ONE Black person was able to score high enough on the test? (Contract this argument with one I recently posted where Buchanan argued the exact opposite, that it wasn't possible that NOT ONE WHITE MAN could have been considered for the nomination that Sotomayor received -- "It HAS TO BE AFFIRMATIVE ACTION" he argued. It's couldn't have been the Suma Cum Laude, the Phi Beta Kappa or the 17 years of Federal Bench experience? Yeah, ok - whatever)
Admittedly this is a difficult case, and there are sympathetic persons on all sides of the issue. Was the Test Fair? Were the Black Firefighters just simply outscored? If in fact, the test wasn't flawed and they had performed a "Do Over" with a new better (and still race neutral) test, wouldn't the better performing applicants have still prevailed?
Rather than go against the facts and the lower courts on this matter, Sotomayor followed precedent and the rule of stare decisis (settled law).
The third issue, which isn't addressed in the video, but is still relevant is Sotomayor's "Courts make policy" statement from a Duke University Conferrence. Much too has been made of this statement as it makes her appear to be a wild-eyed activits.
All of the legal defense funds out there, they're looking for people out there with court of appeals experience, because court of appeals is where policy is made. And I know, I know this is on tape and I should never say that because we don't make law, I know. I know.
To this I've read reasonable sounding responses such as...
Excuse me, I thought it was the job of Congress to decide "policy". At least according to the Constitution... isn't that what she's supposed to be protecting... the rule of Constitutional law? Isn't that in fact the "job" of a Supreme Court Justice?
The simple answer to that is "No". The final arbiter of what is "Law" and Constitutional is the Courts, particularly the Supreme Court as was established 206 years ago by Marbury v Madison.
Marbury v. Madison was the first time the Supreme Court declared something "unconstitutional," and established the concept of judicial review in the U.S. (the idea that courts may oversee and nullify the actions of another branch of government). The landmark decision helped define the "checks and balances" of the American form of government.
All she was saying, was the truth. Congress may make the law, the President may sign it - but the Court then review it and ultimately decide if it should remain standing under the Constitution - OR NOT.
The hysterical bleets of the wing-nuts on these issues need to be either ignored, or completely taken apart to the point that no one with half-a-brain and any self-respect would even consider repeating these baseless, demeaning and racially-projectionist arguments against the most experienced and educated Supreme Court Nominee in over a Century.
In the last day quite a bit of hubbub and hullaballo has surfaced over a Telegraph UK report that alleges the reason that Obama did not release the latest set of Abu Ghraib pictures is because they depicted the Rape of Children.
I myself have helped share links to this story, but last night I read something which contradicted and to some extent corrected that story from, oddly enough, Jason Leopold.
Jumping more than a bit ahead of the gun a dog's age ago, Leopold has once claimed that Karl Rove was about to be arrested on Fitzmas. He wasn't, but Jason may have learned a lesson or two about verifying sources.
All that is now just another liter of blood under the bridge...
In this case he is addressing detailed descriptions of the pictures requested by the ACLU via FOIA which Obama recently denied. (BTW, Obama's isn't the last word on that subject - it could still go to SCOTUS)
U.S. Army soldiers in Afghanistan took dozens of pictures of their colleagues pointing assault rifles and pistols at the heads and backs of hooded and bound detainees and another photograph showed two male soldiers and one female soldier pointing a broom to one detainee “as if I was sticking the end of a broom stick into rectum,” according to the female soldier’s account as told to an Army criminal investigator.
I found the documents that describes many of the photographs that were set for release at the end of the month on the website of the American Civil Liberties Union. The ACLU has been trying to gain access to the photographs for nearly six years. The ACLU obtained the files describing the pictures in 2005 as part of the organization’s wide-ranging Freedom of information Act lawsuit against the Bush administration seeking documents related to the treatment of “war on terror” prisoners in U.S. custody. ...
About 31 digital photographs contained on a compact disc discovered in June 2004 during an office clean-up at Bagram Airfield also depicted the corpse of “local national” who died from “apparent gunshot wounds” and uniformed U.S. soldiers from the Second Platoon of the 22nd Infantry Battalion stationed at Fire Base Tycze and Dae Rah Wod (DRW) kicking and punching prisoners whose heads were covered with “sand bags” and blindfolds and hands were “zipped-tied,” according to a U.S. Army criminal investigation. The documents related to that investigation can be found in these five separate files: <Part 1> <Part 2> <Part 3> <Part 4> <Part 5>.
The female soldier with the broom handle is further addressed in the report as merely posing with the handle in a suggestive position, not actually attacking a detainee with it.
After reading this I tweeted with Jason to ask him about it.
Vyan1 @JasonLeopold These Docs don't seem to describe the same pics referenced in the UK Taguba interview #DNJ
JasonLeopold @Vyan1 that's because the telegraph report is wrong. The photos being withheld are specifically related to a lawsuit involving 43 photos.
JasonLeopold @Vyan1 there is no question that these photos exist but these were not the photos at the center of the lawsuit between Bushies and the ACLU.
You don't even have to trust me or Jason, the documents - linked above - speak for themselves.
Obama didn't suppress pictures of children being raped (Not that I personally would actually blame him if he did since if you truly want to see a Unrelenting Firestorm of resentment in the Arab would - THAT would do it!)
This may be why - and here I'm admittedly speculating the way the Telegraph did - both Gibb's and the Pentagon felt so free to simply attack the Telegraph's reporting and completely avoid addressing the issue of the Rape pictures themselves. (Then again, without the pictures and documents in hand speculation is inevitable...)
Simply put: IMO These are NOT the pictures we're looking for...
But this doesn't mean that the Telegraph UK is completely wrong, in all likelihood those horrid rape picture *do* exist as they've been backed up by other sources such as Sy Hersch, the Physicians for Human Rights Report and General Taguba.
Gen. Taguba: there is no longer any doubt as to whether the current (Bush) administration has committed war crimes. The only question that remains to be answered is whether those who ordered the use of torture will be held to account.
Reports of children being raped to force their parent to give information have long been alleged by award winning journalist Sy Hersch (Video) but now a report via the Telegraph UK reveals that this allegation is true, and that their were even pictures.
Abu Ghraib abuse photos 'show rape' Photographs of alleged prisoner abuse which Barack Obama is attempting to censor include images of apparent rape and sexual abuse, it has emerged.
At least one picture shows an American soldier apparently raping a female prisoner while another is said to show a male translator raping a male detainee.
Further photographs are said to depict sexual assaults on prisoners with objects including a truncheon, wire and a phosphorescent tube.
Another apparently shows a female prisoner having her clothing forcibly removed to expose her breasts.
Detail of the content emerged from Major General Antonio Taguba, the former army officer who conducted an inquiry into the Abu Ghraib jail in Iraq
Instead of coming from some radical Human Rights organization, this information is coming from a former U.S. Army General, the man who headed the investigation into the Abu Ghraib scandal - and was prohibited from looking at the involvement of higher-ups in these crimes.
Is it rather interesting that John Yoo publicly and specifically argued that *THIS WAS LEGAL*.
John Yoo publicly argued there is no law that could prevent the President from ordering the torture of a child of a suspect in custody – including by crushing that child’s testicles.
This came out in response to a question in a December 1st debate in Chicago with Notre Dame professor and international human rights scholar Doug Cassel.
Cassel: If the President deems that he’s got to torture somebody, including by crushing the testicles of the person’s child, there is no law that can stop him?
Yoo: No treaty.
Cassel: Also no law by Congress. That is what you wrote in the August 2002 memo.
Yoo: I think it depends on why the President thinks he needs to do that.
Geneva doesn't prevent that although it says there will be NO AFFRONTS TO PERSONAL DIGNITY or threats against the family of a detainee? The UN Convention Against Torture doesn't prevent that? 18 USC 2340 (The Torture Statute) and the 18 USC 2441 (The War Crimes Statues) don't outlaw this?
If so, then nothing is outlawed.
The Memo in question is Here (pdf), in it Yoo argues essentially that the Torture Statute only applies if you intent is to "cause severe physical harm" - but if you have some other reason/excuse, the law doesn't apply.
The infliction of pain must be the defendants precise objective.
Although the Torture Convention specifically argued that purposes of "pain inflicted for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person a confession of information... is prohibited" - Yoo tries to argue this away with the argument that words "specifically intended" are included within the ratification documentation of the treaty as approved by Congress.
He argued that since the intent was to gain information or cooperation from the subject, or even a third party as opposed to the simplistic sadistic goal of causing pain for it's own sake, it's legal.
Rob bank and keep the money = Illegal. Rob a bank and give the money to charity = Legal. Rape a child for shits and giggles = Illegal. Rape a child to get their parents to infiltrate the insurgency and report back to you = Legal.
Get it?
And since Yoo put this view into a memo and it was stamped as valid by the Justice Department, it's pretty hard to argue complete ignorance when exactly what he wrote - is what happened in Iraq.
Maj Gen Taguba’s internal inquiry into the abuse at Abu Ghraib, included sworn statements by 13 detainees, which, he said in the report, he found “credible based on the clarity of their statements and supporting evidence provided by other witnesses.”
Among the graphic statements, which were later released under US freedom of information laws, is that of Kasim Mehaddi Hilas in which he says: “I saw ******* a kid, his age would be about 15 to 18 years. The kid was hurting very bad and they covered all the doors with sheets. Then when I heard screaming I climbed the door because on top it wasn’t covered and I saw who was wearing the military uniform, putting his **** in the little kid’s ***…. and the female soldier was taking pictures.”
Let me point out again, that various prior memos by Yoo claiming that Geneva didn't apply to the Taliban or al Qaeda were never written or amended to include civilians detained in Iraq who very clearly would be covered by Geneva and any actions such as these would clearly be - a War Crime!
General Taguba agrees:
Maj. Gen Taguba saw the horrors first hand during his Abu Ghraib investigation and he believes the Bush administration is guilty of war crimes.
In a preface to a report by Physicians for Human Rights on prisoner abuse and torture in U.S. military prisons Taguba wrote: "There is no longer any doubt that the current administration committed war crimes. The only question is whether those who ordered torture will be held to account."
Most of this discussion with Charles Duelfer, the man who proved that Iraq DID NOT have WMD"s, shows that Dick Cheney despites all his claims that water-boarding "yielded valuable information" was attempting desperately to prove some type of operational link between Al Qaeada and Saddam.
All of thie needs to be looked at in context which shows that it wasn't a simple "mistake" it was a deliberate ruse perpetrated on the American people and the world., In late 2002 Colin Powell went before the UN armed with information gained from the torture of Ibn Sheik al-Libi claiming Al-Qaeda members had been trained in chemical weapons use by Iraq (which was a lie), and claims that they possessed mobile labs from Curveball (which was also a Lie).
His presentation led to the adoption of UN resolution 1441 which required Iraq to make a full and final declaration on their WMD status - which they DID.
That document said they Had No WMD, and in compliance with that resolution Saddam allowed the inspector back into Iraq where they found some al samoud missles, but no WMD. The Bushies ignored Saddam's declaration (which was the truth) partly because Saddam didn't explain where the "Yellow Cake from Niger" had gone, even though Joe Wilson had already debunked that claim and the State Dept. had shown it was based on a forgery.
Suskind says he spoke on the record with U.S. intelligence officials who stated that Bush was informed unequivocally in January 2003 that Saddam had no weapons of mass destruction. Nonetheless, his book relates, Bush decided to invade Iraq three months later — with the forged letter from the head of Iraqi intelligence to Saddam bolstering the U.S. rationale to go into war.
Every source up to this date except Ibn Shaik al-Libi had denied the existence of any connection between Saddam and Al Qaeda. So Bush instead of listening to Habbush, or the CIA that said the "Yellow Cake" story was bogus, or the State Dept, or the Energy Deptment that said the "aluminum tubes" were harmless, tried to manufacture a link by having the former Iraqi Intel head forge a letter falsely confessing that Saddam was in league with Osama Bin Laden and the 9-11 attacks.
Iraq having WMD is a potential problem (even though they didn't), but not as big a problem as them giving WMD to al Qaeda.
On page 371 of “The Way of the World,” Suskind describes ]the White House’s concoction of a forged letter purportedly from the hand of Habbush to Saddam Hussein to justify the United States’ decision to go to war.
Suskind writes: “The White House had concocted a fake letter from Habbush to Saddam, backdated to July 1, 2001. It said that 9/11 ringleader Mohammed Atta had actually trained for his mission in Iraq — thus showing, finally, that there was an operation link between Saddam and al-Qaeda, something the Vice President's office had been pressing CIA to prove since 9/11 as a justification to invade.”
He continues: “A handwritten letter, with Habbush's name on it, would be fashioned by CIA and then hand-carried by a CIA agent to Baghdad for dissemination.”
The truths is they were enemies, as the CIA Al Qeada desk already knew well.
Should we really be surprised that Dick Cheney just couldn't take "Hell No!" for an answer and quickly pushed to use torture to support this pack of lies?
In yet another example of Ambush Journalism Fox News sent one of their "Producers" Boston AM Radio guy Ken Pittman challenged Janeane Garofalo over her "Racist Redneck Tea Bagger" comments, and almost manage to make me think she might have had a point.
Now when she made her original comments on Countdown, there were a lot of Democrats - myself included - who thought she'd gone WAY over the top.
This time she gets repeatedly asked if she'd apologize for her comments that "all the tea baggers were redneck racists" - and she just WON'T do it.
I don't agree with the blanket nature of her original statement, but she does manage to turn the interview they're trying to have with her, into an interview of them - and they kinda FAIL.
This is what happens when you try and ambush a person whose a faster thinker and better at media than YOU are.
Her main point, "Where was all this outrage while Bush was running record deficits?" Also I'd like to point out again, that the Bailout was Bush's plan, and the AIG bonuses were his mistake. Most of the massive up-tick in Obama's budget comes from not hiding the cost of the Iraq and Afghanistan Wars anymore. Most of the complaint is about his stimulus plan, which so far, seems to be working. So where were the Bush=Hitler posters when he started robbing the poor to give to the rich 8 years ago? In fact, where are they now?
These are some of signs she's talking about.
It would be ridiculous to argue that this represents everyone involved, but the problem the Fox guys have is that these aren't a figment of Janeane's imagination, and when you stand next to the guy with the Obama-Hitler sign and refuse - REFUSE - to call him out for it, your silence indicates that you accept the premise - it means you essentially ENDORSE it.
I'm certain there are and were many people who have legitimate tax concerns who are willing to speak out against this stuff, but all I've heard them say is "I didn't do it!" Yeah, well, that's Not. Good. Enough.
You can't whine about Obama bowing to the Saudi King while you're bowing to the guy with the URKEL poster, by failing to call them out.
Earlier in the program Van Susteren talked to Karl Rove and he spent the one portion of the interview talking about how "Civil and polite" the Republican are and how Mean and Vicious the Democrats are. Yes, Really!
They have an example of a CBS guy saying U.S. soldiers would shoot Nancy Pelosi and strangle Harry reid before taking out Osama Bin Laden. So much for the "Liberal" Media.
Look, again I don't agree with Sykes Kidney comments, but frankly I didn't see many fans of Limbaugh calling HIM out for his vicious LIE that Michael J. Fox was exaggerating his Parkinson's symptoms just to generate sympathy and greater support for Clair McCaskill. Fox had also support Arlen Specter while he was still a Republican so his endorsement was purely based on what he said it was - her support for Parkinson's research - period!
I didn't see many Republicans calling out George Allen for his Racial "Maccaca" slur. I don't see people except for Colin Powell objecting when Limbaugh says he wants Obama to fail, ignoring the fact that if he fails - America FAILS. And Powell seems to be being repaid be being excommunicated from the Party via Cheney.
Nice.
That's a real big PUP tent the GOPasauras are pitching these days.
During the Garofalo ambush they accuse her of being "Bigoted Ideologically" of being "Biased Against Conservatives" - a charge which Janeane counters with the fact that the current Republican party bares no resemblance to what Barry Goldwater the "father of Modern Conservatism" actually stood for. A point which is emphasized in more detail by John Dean's Book 'Conservatives without Conscience".
But I think the more interesting assertion is the idea of Conservatives as a Protected Class. This view explains why Conservatives feel they should have their own form of Affirmative Action and have a nominal representative everywhere in the media. They certainly act like they're in a perpetual state of victimhood, but consider this - if someone can be bigoted ideologically against conservatives then someone can be an anti-Liberal BIGOT too.
If that's true, then they pretty much just proved Janeane's point - because the reason so many people were willing to passively stand-by in solidarity with the element of racists who were there and lend them additional credibility is because they are IDEOLOICAL BIGOTS themselves.
And that's something I completely agree with in the case of pretty much everyone involved in this Tea Party Effort, ideological intolerance isn't really all that much different from being racist itself. Either way it's still bigotry.
After this I feel that Garafalo should apologize when Anyone from the Tea Partier movement apologizes for those signs or failing that when Limbaugh, Coulter, O'Reilly or Michael Savage apologies for just a fraction of the anti-Liberal Hate Speech they've spewed over the years.
I would prefer that people generally calmed down and acted in a CIVIL manner with each other but yeah, I know...we're all going to be waiting a long, long time for that to happen.
Vyan
Update: Here's Janeane's side of the story without Fox editing. More on this from Here.
Now if she could just explain why the hell she's on "24" - watching her get bullied by Jack and into violating FISA against her better judgment, then embarrassed by Chloe and turned into a yipping petty harpy when she finally figures out something Chloe can't is not Zesty.
Pelosi's consistent claim in light of arguments that she was informed about "Enhanced Interrogation" techniques is A) That she wasn't told the techniques were already in use and B) That She couldn't have done Anything about it ANYWAY!
Still I think she should have been able to do something, almost anything, to address Classified Crimes in Progress but unfortunately the current law doesn't allow for it.
It may be difficult for those who haven't had a security clearance to understand, but having access to classified information is often a much of a curse and a burden as it is a benefit.
You may get the information (some of it), but you can't do anything with it.
(a) Whoever knowingly and willfully communicates, furnishes, transmits, or otherwise makes available to an unauthorized person, or publishes, or uses in any manner prejudicial to the safety or interest of the United States or for the benefit of any foreign government to the detriment of the United States any classified information—
(1) concerning the nature, preparation, or use of any code, cipher, or cryptographic system of the United States or any foreign government; or
(2) concerning the design, construction, use, maintenance, or repair of any device, apparatus, or appliance used or prepared or planned for use by the United States or any foreign government for cryptographic or communication intelligence purposes; or
(3) concerning the communication intelligence activities of the United States or any foreign government; or
(4) obtained by the processes of communication intelligence from the communications of any foreign government, knowing the same to have been obtained by such processes—
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.
Ten years in prison, this is no joke - and it applies to members of Congress just as much as anyone else. If you been granted access to a secure program, you CAN NOT share that information with anyone who doesn't have access to that specific program. Not your spouse, not your kids, not your co-workers and not your congressional staff.
YOU. CAN'T. TELL. ANYONE!
Now the canard has been raised that Pelosi (or Harman whose also been under this microscope) could have or should have objected somehow.
Objected to Who?
The best they could've done is write a sternly worded letter the way the Sen Rockefeller (and Jane Harmon -ht comments) did concerning NSA Wiretaps after he was supposedly "briefed" on the program.
Rockefeller, turning back to the NSA program in his letter, told Cheney: "Without more information and the ability to draw on any independent legal or technical expertise, I simply cannot satisfy lingering concerns raised by the briefing we received."
The letter, whose existence was unknown to Rockefeller's staff, indicated that the three briefers were Cheney, then-CIA Director George J. Tenet and then NSA-Director Michael V. Hayden. The letter said the Senate intelligence committee's chairman, Pat Roberts (R-Kan.), was there, and it indicated, without naming them, the presence of then-Rep. Porter J. Goss (R-Fla.) and Rep. Jane Harman (D-Calif.), the ranking members of the House intelligence committee.
In hindsight, the letter seemed a rejoinder to President Bush's assertions that key congressional leaders were adequately briefed on the expanded NSA program and to his intimation that they did not seriously object. Rockefeller "was frustrated by the characterization that Congress was on board on this," said one official who is close to him and who spoke on background because of the topic's sensitive nature. "Four congressmen, at least one of whom was raising serious concerns, does not constitute being on board."
His letter was simply ignored, so fat lot of good THAT did. Cheney just BLEW HIM OFF, obviously because Cheney knew damn well there was nothing he could do about it. He couldn't call a hearing, he couldn't even tell his staff!
The National Security Act of 1947 requires that the Executive Branch provide congress with regular reports on it's intelligence activities. Yet time and time again we see that these reports are not provided, Congress is often told nothing or only given partial out-of-date information, and if they do get the data they have No Recourse if they happen to receiving alarming information.
We have to change this.
What occurred under the Bush Administration (as it has occurred with other Presidents) is that National Security Classification has been used to COVER UP ACTIVE CRIMES IN PROGRESS.
I'm going to suggest a radical idea here, since the problem seems to be that the law is preventing congress from ensuring the executive branch abides by the law.
Maybe, just maybe - Congress should Change the Law since being an alleged "co-equal" branch of government, making the law is what they're supposed to do. We can see clearly that the current process is broken. Congressional notification is simply being used as a CYA coupled with a Gotcha!
"See, we told you all along, and you didn't say or do anything and therefore you're complicit in the crime"
We all have to come to realize that's simply a load of bull, one that the Bushies were not just shovelling over Torture, but also Domestic Spying and many other programs as well.
However it's not an impossible problem to solve.
Congress needs to Amend the National Security Act to allow a secure channel for Whistle-blowers to access internal Inspector Generals and Ombudsmen when they suspect criminal activity is taking place under classified cover. They shouldn't need to resort to giving up their career and risking violating 798 by contacting the Press as former NSA Analyst Russel Tice did when he began talking to the New York Times about Illegal NSA Wiretaps.
As Tice describes in this report, the Bush Administration was specifically targeting journalists for data collection - the most likely reason for this is to catch Whistle-blowers like Tice and therefore maintain the Criminal Cover-up. The goal is clear, keeping the cover-up going by creating a Chilling Effect on Government employees, our SOLDIERS, the Press and even Congress itself (ie. Taping Harmon).
In additional to a guaranteed secure channel to internal administration oversight, various Whistle-blowers of Classified Crimes need a secure channel to Congress, and Congress needs the legal power to COMPELL Access to a program in a manner similar to a fully empowered Congressional Subpoena.
If a reluctant administration refuses to grant access to Congress, just as Bush denied Security clearance to the OPR in order to stall and shutdown their investigation into Domestic Surveillance - they need to power to force access - and conduct a secure investigation without allowing any genuine National Security Secret to be generally revealed.
798 should remain strong and prevent premature leaks of such an investigation prior to any potential referral to the DOJ, or calls for an Special Prosecutor.
In special cases, Congress may need the ability to Revoke a Programs Classified Status over the objections of a President by filing suit adjudicating the matter before a court similar to FISA.
Looking back over recent history we can clearly see a number of problems that an unaccountable unitarian executive has brought us. We need more than just disbarment for Yoo, Bybee and Bradbury. We need more than prosecutions for past crimes. We need more than wan assurances from our current executive that "times have changed" -- we need to SERIOUSlY start lobbying Congress to start untying their own hands, and give themselves the power to prevent future abuses by future Administrations.
These suggestions may not all be perfect or sufficient, certainly even the Obama Administration will push back against many of them - but if the abuses of the Nixon Administration brought us the FISA Court, the abuses of Bush should bring us some far far stronger medicine to salve what ailes this nation.
Vyan
Contact Data:
Nancy Pelosi District Office 450 Golden Gate Ave. 14th Floor San Francisco, CA 94102 (415) 556-4862
Rep. John Conyers * Washington Office: 202-225-5126 * Detroit Office: 313-961-5670 * Trenton / Downriver Office: 734-675-4084 Email john.conyers@mail.house.gov
Jay Rockefeller Martinsburg 217 West King Street Suite 307 Martinsburg, WV 25401-3211 (304) 262-9285 (304) 262-9288 Fax
Washington, DC 531 Hart Senate Office Building Washington, DC 20510 (202) 224-6472 (202) 224-7665 Main Fax (202) 228-1610 Scheduling Fax http://rockefeller.senate.gov / Contact Form
Sen Russ Feingold Washington, DC 506 Hart Senate Office Building Washington, DC 20510-4904 (202) 224-5323 TDD (202) 224-1280 Fax (202) 224-2725 Contact Form
U.S. Senator Chris Dodd 448 Russell Building | Washington D.C., 20510 Tel: (202) 224-2823 | Fax: (202) 224-1083
30 Lewis St Suite 101 | Hartford, CT 06103 Tel: (860) 258-6940/(800) 334-5341 —CT only Fax: (860) 258-6958 Twitter
Update: Ok, I've talked to or left a message with all the above members of Congress, several we're very supportive of the idea particular Feingold's office. Left two messages with Speaker Pelosi. I hope others make a few calls to their own Representatives, particular those sympathetic to this situation - but I can at least say these people have all now heard this idea. Hopefully we can keep the pressure building on this over time.
P.S.: When I previously posted this article on Dailykos the issue was raised that Pelosi and Harmon could have walked out of the briefing room onto the House Floor and said just about anything without fear of legal reprisals under the “Speech and Debate” clause from Article 1.
They shall in all Cases, except Treason, Felony and Breach of the Peace, be privileged from Arrest during their Attendance at the Session of their respective Houses, and in going to and returning from the same; and for any Speech or Debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other Place.
This theory was tested in 1972 when Senator Mike Gravel (yes, that Mike Gravel) released the Pentagon papers within his subcommittee and published them in the public record. The government sued to bring his staff before a Grand Jury to help reveal the source of the leak (Daniel Ellsberg) and Gravel exerted the clause as a shield. Although the Court found that the shield in theory could apply to not just a House or Senate member but also their staff within the context of Congressional deliberations – they unfortunately didn’t find that Congress members had absolute immunity from committing what would otherwise be considered crimes on the House or Senate floor. Decision of the Court on Gravel v U.S.
Legislative acts are not all-encompassing. The heart of the Clause is speech or debate in either House. Insofar as the Clause is construed to reach other matters, they must be an integral part of the deliberative and communicative processes by which Members participate in committee and House proceedings with respect to the consideration and passage or rejection of proposed legislation or with respect to other matters which the Constitution places within the jurisdiction of either House. As the Court of Appeals put it, the courts have extended the privilege to matters beyond pure speech or debate in either House, but "only when necessary to prevent indirect impairment of such deliberations." United States v. Doe, 455 F.2d at 760.
Here, private publication by Senator Gravel through the cooperation of Beacon Press was in no way essential to the deliberations of the Senate; nor does questioning as to private publication threaten the integrity or independence of the Senate by impermissibly exposing its deliberations to executive influence.
There are additional considerations. Article I, § 6, cl. 1, as we have emphasized, does not purport to confer a general exemption upon Members of Congress from liability or process in criminal cases. Quite the contrary is true. While the Speech or Debate Clause recognizes speech, voting, and other legislative acts as exempt from liability that might otherwise attach, it does not privilege either Senator or aide to violate an otherwise valid criminal law in preparing for or implementing legislative acts.
From my reading the court actually ruled largely against Gravel's assertion of S&D, and in particular the clause has specific limitations in relation to "Treason or Felony" - and knowingly revealing classified information which might benefit an enemy nation fits the exact definition of "Treason" and certainly a "Felony" in my book, even if you do it on the floor of congress, and the information divulges the commission of a crime(s). IMO this doesn’t help solve the problem.
It's well past time we put a final punctuation mark on this entire "Enhanced Interrogations are not Torture" nonsense - Once and For All.
It doesn't matter what the Polling Data says (Karl), what matters is what the Law Says. The simple fact is that the is No Such Thing as Torture Lite ™?
It's not a question of whether Waterboarding is or isn't Torture, and therefore illegal, the simple fact is that Every Coercive Method Authorized by Yoo, Bybee, Bradbury and Bush all meet the U.S. and International definitions of torture.
All of Them.
Contrary to many arguments this isn't simply a matter of unenforceable International Law. The US signed and ratified the UN Convention Against Torture over a dozen years ago and implemented empowering legislation under 18 USC 2340 - The Torture Statute. It similarly made it a criminal offense to commit a grave Breach of Geneva under 18 USC 2441 - The War Crimes Act.
In his original August 2002 Memo (pdf) Jay Bybee argued that ten techniques, which had been culled from the Special Forces S.E.R.E. program were not torture because they did not induce "permanent or severe physical or psychological" damage as outlined under 18 USC 2340.
Those techniques were..
attention grasp, wailing, facial hold, facial slap, cramped confinement, wall standing, stress positions, sleep deprivations, insects place in a confinement box and the waterboard
Bybee repeatedly argued that the pain and suffering would be "mild", and unlikely to induce long-term psychological stress because only a few of these kinds of signs had ever been recorded by S.E.R.E. students - but besides the fact that the S.E.R.E. program is voluntary, whereas being held against your will is decidedly NOT voluntary, there is also the issue of duration and repetition. The S.E.R.E. course lasts less than a week, and at any point a student can use a code-word to signify they have overextended their reach. Under the program outlined by Bybee, none of this was possible, and neither was there a definate end to the process...
Amnesty International Describes Torture according to the UN Convention Against Torture this way:
It defines torture as any act by which:
severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental; is intentionally inflicted on a person; for such purposes as:
* obtaining from him/her or a third person information or a confession * punishing him/her for an act s/he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed * intimidating or coercing him/her or a third person * or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind;
when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity.*
ANY ACT - which causes severe physical or mental pain and suffering for the purpose of extracting information. ANY ACT.
Slapping, Grasping, Wall Standing, Cramped Confinement, Waterboarding - it doesn't matter. ANY ACT.
Both the Geneva and the UN Convention Against Torture do not include a Laundry List of prohibited actions simply because one you do that, it increases the likelihood that someone might try to invent a technique which isn't included on the list and try to claim that it Isn't Torture on a technicality.
Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions prohibits ''violence to life and person,'' in particular ''mutilation, cruel treatment and torture'' and also prohibits ''outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment''. These terms include ''other forms of cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment or punishment." The drafters of common Article 3 avoided a detailed list of prohibited acts in order to ensure that it had the broadest possible reach, leaving no loophole. As the official commentary by the International Committee of the Red Cross explained:
''It is always dangerous to go into too much detail -- especially in this domain. However great the care taken in drawing up a list of all the various forms of infliction, it would never be possible to catch up with the imagination of future torturers who wished to satisfy their bestial instincts; the more specific and complete a list tries to be, the more restrictive it becomes. The form of wording adopted is flexible, and, at the same time, precise.''
The Army Field Manual, which is crafted to abie by Geneva, does include a list of prohibited actions, and that list doesn't leave any wiggle room for coercive interrogations.
5-75. If used in conjunction with intelligence interrogations, prohibited actions include, but are not limited to— • Forcing the detainee to be naked, perform sexual acts, or pose in a sexual manner. • Placing hoods or sacks over the head of a detainee; using duct tape over the eyes. • Applying beatings, electric shock, burns, or other forms of physical pain. • “Waterboarding.” • Using military working dogs. • Inducing hypothermia or heat injury. • Conducting mock executions. • Depriving the detainee of necessary food, water, or medical care. 5-76. While using legitimate interrogation techniques, certain applications of approaches and techniques may approach the line between permissible actions and prohibited actions.
Performing any of these actions, could clearly meet the legal definition of torture and a War Crime. As could hiding detainees from the legally authorized monitoring agencies such as the International Red Cross.
Two primary defenses/excuses were proffered by Bybee (and have been parotted by many others) - 1) The Pain and Suffering Wasn't THAT Severe!
Pain is a highly subjective issue. What might cause minor pain for one person could be intensely painful for another. But then again, even minor inconveniences can become monumentally discomforting over the coarse of time. Some can even become deadly.
Repeated Face Slapping, like any form of assault, can led to bruising, hemoraging and even a subdural hematoma which can trigger traumatic brain injury. I'm not talking about 2 quick slaps, but hundreds of slaps - over the course of days, and weeks and months. The longer the duration the higher likelihood of permanent damage, and even death.
Stress Positions, Wall Standing and Cramped Confinement are all classic forms of torture. They are used to induce muscle fatigue, which one might associate with body building - but the static nature of the muscles producers a very different result than increasing Lat or Deltoid size. When combined with sleep deprivation, extended periods of acute muscle fatigue can cause the subjects kidneys to shutdown. Generally speaking a lack of functioning kidneys tends to lead to a lack of Life!
Even the psychologist whom some OLC memos cited to argue that the suggested methods were harmless, in fact says exactly the opposite.
"As soon as you add in any other stress, any other psychological stress, then the sleep deprivation feeds on that, and the two compound each other to make things far worse. I made that very, very clear," he said. "And there's been a lot of research by others since then to show that this is the case."
As for whether such stress could be considered "harmful," Horne was unequivocal. "I thought it was totally inappropriate to cite my book as being evidence that you can do this and there's not much harm. With additional stress, these people are suffering. It's obviously traumatic," he said. "I just find it absurd."
It's is even more difficult to quantify psychological pain and suffering than it can be for physical pain, but it can't seriously be argued that deliberate attempts at inducing fear and shamefully humiliation (such as the use of nudity, dogs and insects) had No Effect At All! Further we have amples examples of the impact of physical and emotional abuse, particularly in domestic situations when women are the most common targets.
Women who live in violent households experience intense feelings of fear, panic, and anxiety (Jones 87). Many experience feelings of depression and shame, because they feel guilty about staying in their current situation (Jones 87). Women who are victims of abuse over a prolonged period of time will develop feelings of learned helplessness, or in other words, they will feel powerless to do anything to ameliorate their situation. This feeling of learned helplessness will further contribute to a depressed state. Women who are physically abused are also often verbally abused. This verbal abuse includes name-calling, making one feel worthless, playing mind games, and isolation from one’s family and friends. Verbal abuse can be more damaging to a woman’s psychological well-being than physical abuse. Which physical abuse the wounds heal, but psychological abuse is more difficult to overcome.
Clearly we are usually discussing men rather than women when talk about detainee abuse, but the simple fact is that most women in domestic violence situations CAN LEAVE and end the abuse - a detainee doesn't have that option, and hence has the potential to feel even more helpless and become even more psychologically damaged. Putting aside the obviously problematic argument of "which is worse", it it clear that both the law and society consider this kind of abusive treatment to be unacceptable - so how then can we consider similar treatment to be permissible under the color of authority regardless of the circumstances?
The simple truth is we can't.
The second argument offered is 2) We we're doing it to Save American Lives
Besides the fact that the CIA Inspector Generals Report, and the FBI Director both dispute claims that "Enhance Interrogation" has succeeding in producing "Good Actionable Intelligence" that saved lives, there is one very simple response to this, the UN Convention Against Torture, which the U.S. has signed and ratified, states...
Article 2(2) of the Convention states that: "No exceptional circumstances whatsoever, whether a state of war or a threat of war, internal political instability or any other public emergency, may be invoked as a justification of torture."
In short, there are NO ABUSIVE ACTIONS, either physical or psychological, which are permitted under Geneva for extracting information and under the UN Conventions there are NO EXCUSES.
Many people tend to look at the purely as a "waterboarding" issue, but the fact is long before you reach that particular technique, you've already long passed the threshold into torture and war crimes. But even with that in mind, few people even realize what waterboarding truly is. Even Wikipedia knows better than Jay Bybee.
Waterboarding is a form of torture that consists of immobilizing the victim on his or her back with the head inclined downwards, and then pouring water over the face and into the breathing passages. By forced suffocation and inhalation of water, the subject experiences drowning and is caused to believe they are about to die. It is considered a form of torture by legal experts, politicians, war veterans, intelligence officials, military judges,and human rights organizations. As early as the Spanish Inquisition it was used for interrogation purposes, to punish and intimidate, and to force confessions.
In contrast to submerging the head face-forward in water, waterboarding precipitates a gag reflex almost immediately. The technique does not inevitably cause lasting physical damage. It can cause extreme pain, dry drowning, damage to lungs, brain damage from oxygen deprivation, other physical injuries including broken bones due to struggling against restraints, lasting psychological damage or, ultimately, death. Adverse physical consequences can start manifesting months after the event; psychological effects can last for years.
Certain forms of waterboarding do not allow water to enter the mouth and lungs by using a non-permiable or cellophane sheet to cover the nose and mouth (although the Method used under S.E.R.E. isn't one of these), but far from being "safe" this version of waterboarding it can enduce the phenomenon of Dry Drowning.
In normal breathing, the diaphragm contracts, causing the lungs to expand (lungs are above the diaphragm). This expansion draws air into the lungs by generating a negative pressure or vacuum. Air first travels through the rigid larynx and upper airways before filling the inflatable alveoli in the lungs.
When water or other foreign bodies are inhaled, laryngospasm occurs and the person's larynx spasms shut. As a result, the vacuum created by the diaphragm cannot be filled by the inrush of air into the lungs, and the vacuum persists. In an attempt to force air in through the spasmed larynx, the person may breathe deeper and with more effort, but this only increases the vacuum's force inside the chest. The obstruction to the inflow of oxygen causes hypoxia, and the obstruction to the outflow of carbon dioxide causes acidosis, both resulting in death.
In addition, a multifactorial form of pulmonary edema is produced. The heart continues to beat normally during this time, and blood continues to circulate, though pulmonary oxygen and carbon dioxide gas exchange is markedly reduced. The volume of blood in the pulmonary circulation increases, by pulling in more blood from the abdomen, head, arms and legs - abnormally large volumes of this blood enter the pulmonary circulation via the superior and inferior vena cavae (great veins) in response to the persistent partial vacuum. From the vena cavae, the increased blood volume flows through the right atrium and into the right ventricle. The blood volume is great enough to stretch out the ventricle, similar to water entering a balloon.
POP! You're dead.
This is what Jay Bybee Wrote about severe suffering and Waterboarding.
Any pain associated with muscle fatigue is not of the intensity sufficient to amount to "sever physical pain or suffering" under the statute, nor, despite it's discomfort, can it be said to be difficult to endure. As we understand it, when the waterboard is used, the subject's body responds as if the subject were drowning--even though the subject is well aware that he is in fact not drowning.
As a simple point of fact, if you're "body is responding as if you're drowning" -- You. Are. Drowning! All of the negative impacts, from lung damage, acidosis and edema are likely and possible depending on the duration and frequency of the treatment.
Abu Zubaydah who was waterboarded 83 times (in additional to sleep deprivation, endless loud music and stress positions) is a long way from free from "Sufferring":
First, they beat him. As authorized by the Justice Department and confirmed by the Red Cross, they wrapped a collar around his neck and smashed him over and over against a wall. They forced his body into a tiny, pitch-dark box and left him for hours. They stripped him naked and suspended him from hooks in the ceiling. They kept him awake for days.
Today, he suffers blinding headaches and has permanent brain damage. He has an excruciating sensitivity to sounds, hearing what others do not. The slightest noise drives him nearly insane. In the last two years alone, he has experienced about 200 seizures.
But physical pain is a passing thing. The enduring torment is the taunting reminder that darkness encroaches. Already, he cannot picture his mother's face or recall his father's name. Gradually, his past, like his future, eludes him.
The last point is that even if these techniques all managed to successfully slalom through the minefield of U.S. and International Law, there is considerable evidence that CIA and Military Personnel in the field - went far beyond the guidelines provided by the OLC and not just at Abu Ghrab or Gitmo.
A 27-year-old Iraqi male died while being interrogated by Navy Seals on April 5, 2004, in Mosul, Iraq. During his confinement he was hooded, flex-cuffed, sleep deprived and subjected to hot and cold environmental conditions, including the use of cold water on his body and hood. The exact cause of death was ""undetermined"" although the autopsy stated that hypothermia may have contributed to his death. Notes say he ""struggled/ interrogated/ died sleeping.""
An Iraqi detainee (also described as a white male) died on January 9, 2004, in Al Asad, Iraq, while being interrogated by ""OGA."" He was standing, shackled to the top of a door frame with a gag in his mouth at the time he died. The cause of death was asphyxia and blunt force injuries.
A detainee was smothered to death during an interrogation by Military Intelligence on November 26, 2003, in Al Qaim, Iraq. A previously released autopsy report, that appears to be of General Mowhoush, lists ""asphyxia due to smothering and chest compression"" as the cause of death and cites bruises from the impact with a blunt object.
A detainee at Abu Ghraib Prison, captured by Navy Seal Team number seven, died on November 4, 2003, during an interrogation by Navy Seals and ""OGA."" A previously released autopsy report, that appears to be of Manadel Al Jamadi, shows that the cause of his death was ""blunt force injury complicated by compromised respiration.""
A 52-year-old male Iraqi was strangled to death at the Whitehorse detainment facility on June 6, 2003, in Nasiriyah, Iraq. His autopsy also revealed bone and rib fractures, and multiple bruises on his body.
If Death By Interrogation isn't enough to prove torture - then nothing is torture. Nothing at all.
And this is precisely the point, those that support this policy would attempt to redefine reality right out of existence. If our only protection against Torture is whether someone makes you stand on one leg for 4 hours instead of 8 Hours or 12 hours, then we have No protection at ALL.
That is why a Hard Bright Line needs to be maintained, that is why Disbarment is Too Good For "Em, the entire lot of the War Criminal Gang needs to be fully investigated and prosecuted. Anything less is a disgrace.
Approximately 8 mins into this discussion on the CIA use of Torture, former CIA Bin Laden Desk Chief Micheal Scheuer (Author of Imperial Hubris) argues that prosecuting Bush Officials for the Criminal Conspiracy of Torture would "tear this country apart", and that if this is attempted - it should go even further into prosecutions against Bill Clinton for the Rendition Program that he setup which was run my Scheuer himself.
It's classic bait and switch, tar and feather the hated opposition for shoplifting a donut while hiding the stolen Queen Mary behind your back.
"Look over there - A Bird!"
In the meantime he makes every possible wingnut argument, many of whom I thoroughly debunked last week when they were parroted by Liz Cheney. Scheuer's a smart guy, and clearly the world's leading expert on Bin Laden, but he's also a raging Clinton-Hater and budding Barack-No-Phobe, so his comments on either of them have to be taken with a Back-Hoe of Salt.
I don't have a lot more to add, the video speaks for itself.
JOIN THE ARMY
