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beam me up scottie's Journal
From Science Blogs Terra Sigillata: Misconceptions on herbs and cancer
Category: Botanical/Herbal Medicines • Cancer
Posted on: September 20, 2006 8:33 PM, by Abel Pharmboy
Curcumin has been much in the news as of late as considerable cell culture data has been suggestive of the compound's utility in cancer prevention and cancer treatment. The impetus for me speaking on this has been the recent report by my ScienceBlogs.com colleague, Razib, at Gene Expression.
Unfortunately, the story of curcumin has been clouded by overly aggressive attempts by marketers to manipulate in vitro, or Petri dish, cell culture studies with human consumption. Some very outstanding scientists have been working on the anticancer effects of this herb, but it seems that their efforts and results have been overexaggerated and misrepresented.
Briefly, we have known that many natural compounds used at high concentrations, including curcumin, can arrest or kill human cancer cells growing on a plastic dish in the laboratory.
The bigger question in using these remedies for humans with cancer has been whether the concentrations used in cell culture can be acheived in the bloodstream of patients. Most naturally-occuring compounds must be concentrated hundreds or thousands-fold from their natural source, and then be given at doses that would choke a horse.
With curcumin, the very attractive in vitro anticancer data on the compound is offset by the fact that curcumin is poorly bioavailable. What that means is that one takes a certain amount of curcumin by mouth, very little is absorbed into the bloodstream. The question, with curcumin and any other drug, is whether concentrations that kill cancer cells in culture can be achieved in human cells.
Sadly, this is not possible with curcumin, at least at doses of one or more grams per day.
Any recommendations for its use in humans should not be taken seriously until prospective studies of its anticancer action are performed in human subjects.
Not all of the woos think the world will end, but most of them think something HUGH!!1! will happen.
Google "The Shift" if you want a free mini-lobotomy.
Most of us agree that more research needs to be done.
The double-blind cross-over study included 24 patients suffering from symptomatic, persistent allergic rhinitis who recorded the severity of their runny nose, itchy nose, stuffy nose and sneezing twice a day for a month. The capsaicin- MucoAd™ formula (Sinol-M™ ) was compared to the 1st generation product without MucoAd™ (Sinol™ .)
24 patients, no placebo. Just another internet alt-med pharmaceutical corporation woofomercial posted in DU's Health Forum.
I prefer to research cults and snake oil salesmen and post the information in the appropriate group.
Your intent is obviously to disrupt since you've attacked everyone who disagreed with you, and refused to read the references provided by the skeptics in this group (which you DEMANDED repeatedly).
This isn't WooWooLand, in this group you're expected to back up your claims with evidence.
You should go back to your echo chamber, you know absolutely nothing about the subject in the op and it's painfully obvious that you're way out of your league.
To Sue when she asked if he thought she chose to have a bone marrow disease: CanSocDem (550 posts) Wed May-28-08 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Like I said...
...people choose ill health for their own reasons. I have no idea why you have a 'bone marrow disorder'. Maybe you wanted to visit the Mayo Clinic....
Anyway, we're all surrounded by toxic chemicals, contaminated food and lethal mosquitoes but only some of us get sick. Why is that....????
I know intelligent people who can't look through a doctors manual without acquiring most of the symptoms. To Warpy who said she didn't choose to get polio: CanSocDem (485 posts) Wed May-28-08 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. You're excused.
And yes you did decide to get that "painful, crippling...disease" for your own reasons. And now you're living through it...kicking and screaming....but living.
Of course, all I know or care to know about you is what you choose to put in your post. If you want me to know that you are in pain, disabled and uninsured then that is the life you want to project. Whether shit happens to me or not, it is not what my life is about so I won't mention it. Telling me about your pain and discomfort doesn't convince me of the reality of your disease, just your reaction to it.
Try focusing on something else...it's amazing how that works. To Book Lover who became angry that he believed her daughter chose to be autistic before she was even born: CanSocDem (550 posts) Sat Jun-07-08 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #89
90. You make it sound if it were....
...my fault that your child was born with autism. Or, somehow, that by striking out at me, you will feel better. If this is all about making YOU feel better then flame away.
However if your daughters condition is making you drink and become belligerent you should probably stop blaming yourself. To cosmik who commented on how cruel it was to blame an unborn child for her autism: CanSocDem (550 posts) Sat Jun-07-08 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #94
95. Are you off your med's....
...or is that question unspeakably cruel as well??? I am not blaming the victim for anything.....are you that dense????
I'm saying WHATEVER you got you got for your own, obviously subconcious, intents and purposes.
I'm sorry that every person that attempts to enlighten you feels more like a "rapist" than someone trying to help. I hope you grow out of it..... A bizarre exchange with Warpy (an experienced RN) where he first inferred she knew nothing about colds and flu, and then went on to blame nurses for causing "life threatening super infection(s)" CanSocDem (550 posts) Sat Dec-13-08 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Why are you aware...
...of "...signs of a bacterial infection" and not of the transitory nature of cold's, flu etc.???
Could it be that you have been 'schooled' by television advertising?
Here's another good "alternative" health therapy....
Turn off your television. Warpy (1000+ posts) Sat Dec-13-08 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Excuse me, Sparky
but I was an RN for 25 years. My recognition of the signs of life threatening super infection have nothing to do with your susceptibility to television advertising.
CanSocDem (550 posts) Sat Dec-13-08 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Yes, you are clever...
...but thanks to your vaunted profession, cold's and flu have morphed into "life threatening super infection". Care to tell us how that happened...????
John Gauger (1000+ posts) Sun Dec-14-08 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #11
21. What the fuck are you talking about?
Superbugs are bacterial infections. Influenza and the common cold are viruses. Human activities have no effect on the mutation rate of viruses. Don't blame science, blame God. CanSocDem (550 posts) Sun Dec-14-08 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. Guess what.
Excessive use of anti-bio tics resulted in viruses mutating to overpower the drugs. That's where super-bugs come from and there appears to be "humans" involved.
"Don't blame science, blame God."
For what....????
What the fuck are YOU talking about? I think it's time to call in the exterminators.
DU skeptics have always prided themselves on our open door policy while posters in the astrology group prefer to ban any and all dissent/ers. We've discussed this subject before and most skeptics decided that we didn't need another echo chamber on DU and we were not afraid to have our ideas challenged. The problem now is that disruptors are not challenging our ideas, they're taking advantage of our policy and using our group to take potshots at us. Every time *their beliefs are mocked in the main forums they blame us, we're their favorite whipping boy. The ones who follow us here are stalkers and are not interested in discourse, *they want revenge. That type of behaviour is obviously a violation of DU rules, but even if their comments are eventually deleted they still have poisoned the well. Skeptics have honoured their requests to stay out their group but *they refuse to extend the same courtesy to us. Perhaps it is time to take that choice away from them, posting in this group is a privilege, not a right. Changing our mission statement does not mean we have to ban all non-skeptics, we can still have discussions with respectful visitors. Look at the difference in the two mission statements: Skinner ADMIN (1000+ posts) Fri Nov-12-04 09:58 PM
Original message
Welcome to the Skepticism, Science and Pseudoscience Group
Edited on Tue Nov-01-05 09:29 AM by Skinner
This Group is for the discussion of issues related to skepticism, science and pseudoscience, and the role of rationalism in society. Non-skeptics are invited to participate, provided that they do so in a respectful, non-disruptive manner. Skinner ADMIN (1000+ posts) Fri Nov-12-04 09:47 PM
Original message
Welcome to the DU Astrology, Spirituality & Alternative Healing Group
Edited on Mon Nov-15-04 12:36 PM by Skinner
This Group is for those who wish to positively explore issues having to do with Astrology, metaphysics & spirituality, homeopathy/alternative medicine and healing, Ascension, and other subjects having to do with holistic physical and spiritual growth & traditions.
This group is intended as a positive place for those who desire a deeper discussion of these stated topics and is not intended as a place to argue the merits of beliefs or choices.
Discussion of Alternative and Complementary Healing Methods is in no way intended to take the place of mainstream medical care/tests but to serve as a place to come together to discuss and share other options, experiences and modalities of healing. Members are advised to seek the advice of a medical doctor before experimenting with any alternative healing methods.
We should start a new thread to discuss our options, if we agree to change our ms we can ask Skinner to review and hopefully approve the new one. I believe that if we can have our own safe house on DU, many long absent skeptics will return. What say you? * I am only referring to the disruptors, I know that most posters in the asah group are not guilty of this behaviour, consider my statements qualified.
And then there's this: omega minimo (1000+ posts) Sat Mar-14-09 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. you know exactly what you've done
to DU Yes, you've got me. I personally ruined DU. And you claim to be rational?  12. Always claim that the other guy is "closed-minded" and that you're as free-thinking as a newborn baby. Other woo-woos love the concept of "open-mindedness" and will take you into their inner circle without question. They have no tolerance for those "mean old nasty" types who demand evidence for everything. 22. Refer to anyone who does not immediately agree with you as being uneducated on the matter, lacking in important information, or just plain too stupid to understand your magnificent statements.
I never said all of them were yours, btw, maybe you should pour some decaf and sound out the words as you're reading them. Deep breath, now try again: As problematic as these from your group?: Posted by omega minimo: Do not publicly accuse another member of this message board of being a disruptor, conservative, Republican, FReeper, or troll, or do not otherwise imply they are not welcome on Democratic Underground. Also posted by omega minimo: YOU are the troll here Beam, the disruptor, intentionally trying to divide DUers, on one of the most touchy and flamey topics possible.  
omega minimo (1000+ posts) Sat Mar-14-09 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. There are certainly more voices here
that aren't allowed to speak, in this Group or elsewhere, who are interested in more wide ranging discussion, rather than bashing a group seen as fair game. Just the fact that numerous posts, including by that poster, accusing me of "being a troll" and "disruptor" were allowed to stand is problematic.
I apologized in the OP b/c I thought "science" meant science and that those voices or lurkers might resist the groupthink. Some did. Even one of those outways dozens of the willfully belligerent.
I'm interested in what people have to say that appears during group attacks as hollow and unjustified. These are smart people. There's got to be SOMETHING behind rather than personal pain and business agendas. "Just the fact that numerous posts, including by that poster, accusing me of "being a troll" and "disruptor" were allowed to stand is problematic."As problematic as these from your group?: it's time to focus on what we want to see/be and not waste time fighting toxic blowhards "Hey, what's your opinion on why the naysayers keep bringing up the indigo thing?"
They're "douchebags" and when they read this, they'll understand. What I don't understand is some of the same people looking for/demanding support for their pet issues in GD and sub-forums, issues that marginalize them, are so intolerant, abusive and emotionally retarded in mob attacking others (including those with shared interests). They are emotionally stunted and it doesn't matter the topic, as long as they can gather like a pack of jackals, tear it apart and GET AWAY WITH IT ON DU. similar to
blind belief in "science" and the "rational" causing closed minds and hostile reactions to anything that pushes the envelope of the Already Known.
As different from true science as religion is from spirituality, as zealotry is from rationale. mob swarms that organize somewhere on DU, including Groups and subforums The Lounge is very middle school-like
Cliques and flirtations and popularity contests, "cool kids" and hangers on...and when someone says the wrong thing, they are attacked so the cool kids and wannabes can maintain their "ranking". Or something. I just used to find the Lounge amusing and didn't participate in the dramas. As I posted upthread, though, now I'm looking at the Loungers in a different light, with far less trust. They're no longer harmless to me; they have a dark underbelly.
GOOD POINT about the viciousness of the gay crowd. I noticed that too! It's like for once they're not the victim of the bigotry, and they're going to enjoy it and encourage it and keep it going for as long as possible. I expected them to be more tolerant because of their own experiences being on the receiving end of negativity. Some intolerant bullies who may or may not be whatever subgroup but the bottom line is
they get away with what they do.
Why? How?
The answer appears to be -- after the most recent DUbacle -- is they serve the purpose of marginalizing others and being too busy being petty to promote their issues in the Big Forums.
They unwittingly serve to perpetuate and protect the dominant paradigm that is marginalizing them. It's win win!!
The scary part is the selfrighteousness about it, while ATTACKING SOME MORE
Poor things. The mere prescence of a thread on a topic deemed "woo" by the self appointed arbiters of What DUers May Discuss OR NOT!!!1111!! is irrational, self righteous, info free, one liner attacks; delivered with the attitude of "what did you expect, you deserve to be attacked." preventing anything resembling discussion and shutting down and/or locking threads other DUers are interested in. This rabid zealotry appears as knee jerk and ignorant as any of the religious fundamentalists the science fundamentalists criticize.
Perhaps there are too many here who didn't grow up with or have access to the wealth of science fiction that inspired -- and continues to -- exploration of ideas and imagination, including science and futuristic technology, that peaked in the 70's/80's and went off a cliff with the rest of our culture after. It still exists, but the media masters like to regurgitate old ideas and not so much with the support of new voices/artists/writers that don't have Sure Thing written all over.
Even the comment that "so it's only a miracle if we'd predicted that this particular organism was going to be the result" seems like short-sighted and truncated thought. It's this limited scope of the possible, the willingness to shut down imagination and vision, including the inevitable merging of old ideas with new; and previous concepts thought separate seen with new awareness of interconnections. Your cries of persecution ring hollow and your hypocrisy is infinite. Unlike the posters in the astrology group, we didn't call you names or accuse you of anything until you showed up here to disrupt ours. Your group constantly attacks other members and then hides behind the "rules" if anyone tries to defend themselves. Just a few hours ago, you called me out in your group: This is the most vicious, hateful, inflammatory and intensionally damaging act I have ever see on DU.
At least I have the courage to confront you to your face.
omega minimo (1000+ posts) Sat Feb-21-09 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #37
50. .
"Hey, what's your opinion on why the naysayers keep bringing up the indigo thing?"
They're "douchebags" and when they read this, they'll understand.
What I don't understand is some of the same people looking for/demanding support for their pet issues in GD and sub-forums, issues that marginalize them, are so intolerant, abusive and emotionally retarded in mob attacking others (including those with shared interests).
They are emotionally stunted and it doesn't matter the topic, as long as they can gather like a pack of jackals, tear it apart and GET AWAY WITH IT ON DU. Do not use the DU Groups to whip up feelings of victimization or to complain about perceived mistreatment by the administrators, moderators, or members of Democratic Underground
And the dedications illustrate the cold hard reality of the "good old days" :
IN MEMORY OF MARY S. DAUGHTER OF CAPT. SAMUEL AND BETSEY TILLOTSON SHE DIED DEC 11TH 1819 AGED 9 MOS.
Hepatitis B:
DANIEL H. TILLOTSON SON OF SAMUEL & BETSEY TILLOTSON DIED AUGUST 9, 1813 AGED 1 YEAR 8 MONTHS
Polio:
IN MEMORY OF CARLOS SON OF CAPT. SAMUEL AND BETSEY TILLOTSON WHO DIED NOV THE 4, 1818 AGED 5 YRS
Diphtheria:
HULDAH DAUGHTER OF IRENE AND EBENEZER KNAPP BORN JUNE 18, 1811 DIED FEB 21, 1813
Pertussis:
CAROLINE DAUGHTER OF IRENE AND EBENEZER KNAPP BORN OCT 27, 1807 DIED JAN 27, 1808
Tetanus:
“L. B.” IN MEMORY OF LYMAN SON OF MR. JACOB AND MRS. ABIGAIL BLACK WHO DIED SEPT 10TH 1801 AGED 6 YRS 10 MONTHS 23 DA
Haemophilus influenzae type B:
JOHN N. SON OF JOHN AND MARY HUBBARD DIED MARCH 21, 1836 AGED 1 YR (8 MO 1 DA)
Measles:
BETSEY HUBBARD DIED JULY 17, 1799 AGED 9 MO 5 DS
EBER DIED OCT 27, 1802 AGED 7 MO 16 DS
LUCINDA DIED AUG 29, 1810 AGED 1 YR 2 MO 20 DS
HARRIET DIED JAN 22, 1820 AGED 6 YR 4 MO 6 DS
PETER B. DIED MAR 10, 1820 AGED 9 MO 8 DS
CHILDREN OF PETER & POLLY HUBBARD
Mumps:
VIANA DAUGHTER OF ASA & MARGARET ANDREWS DIED SEPT 2, 1823 AGED 2 YEARS
Rubella:
HIRAM BORN JAN 14, 1827 DIED FEB 14, 1827
CHESTER G. BORN MAY 5, 1832 DIED FEB 19, 1833
EMELINE BORN MARCH 24, 1825 DIED FEB 21, 1833
SUSAN BORN APRIL 14, 1836 DIED DEC 10, 1836
CHILDREN OF HIRAM & EMILY TAYLOR
Chicken Pox: HERE LIE TWO SONS OF ELIJAH & MABEL ANDREWS.
ELISHA DIED OCT 21, 1802 AGED 1 YR & 5 MONTHS
RICHARD DIED OCT 25, 1797 AGED 2 YRS & 1 MONTH
Who can forget how many of our friends and allies told us we were upset over nothing? How our outrage was mocked? How we were called liars after rs changed the text and wouldn't admit it? How many had to take a break after that? I know I did. Here's one of my posts from that lovely part of DU history: The people who couldn't wait to use this issue to accuse and malign atheists and to justify their bias against us, are the same type of people who repeatedly use the illegal immigration issue to accuse and malign racial minorities and to justify their bias against them.
They're called bigots.
And I find their behaviour repulsive, unethical and contrary to liberal principles no matter who they are targeting.
I want to thank all of the believers on DU who spoke up for us.
I know from personal experience it's not exactly easy to take a stand when you're not the one who's being held responsible for driving away moderates and costing us elections.
It's always easier, especially during an election year, to look away and pretend you didn't notice that minorities with unpopular causes were being purged by the self-appointed ringmasters in the big tent.
As for the rest of the people who think we are overreacting to business as usual, fuck you.
I hope when you're being told to sit down and shut up, there's nobody left to stand up for you.
I will never forget, I will never treat GLBT DUers the way we were treated, and I will not stay silent.
the more I miss being ignorant...  Imagine. 
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