knowing obama won, or knowing SHE didn't...

when i think about the possibility that she could have been there, with mcgiggleballs...and when i think of what we got instead- we actually elected a great, intelligent president for the first time in 12 years!!

i haven't made my way to the papers yet, but i'm wondering what europeans and asians and so on are thinking about us now. "zoot alors, zey finally got zere brainz baque after being zombiefied for so long!!"

for example, he used his POW credibility, whatever that means, to introduce a trojan horse bill that was supposed to define and oppose torture, but we here know the reality. we know that he helped this administration stretch its arm further, and with retroactive immunity, and the potential to pursue american citizens. he used his credibility to indoctrinate torture and to blur the lines between terrorist/enemy combatant and protestor.

he needs to be hit where there is no potential controversy, where he can't really argue- yes, mccain did do that,the only question is, is torture acceptable? to soem americans it may be, however, to those who trusted mccain would never support such a bill, who believed that he was the man to trust to NEVER introduce torture to american policy, they will begin to question his credibility. we need to hit him with the readily available, SOLID traits, not with easily and already obfuscated juvenility.

"gaffes," mistakes, goofy screwballery and cornuttery and are not worth our time. i don't know if anyone else noticed, but obama resisted attacking his opponents on "GAFFES" during the primaries, and, um, somehow, i don't know how, i mean, without picking on clinton, without relentlessly bullying and picking her every flaw and goofup, how how how HOW did he do it- he SOMEHOW managed to come out on top. hm...

the following paltry and completely devoid of ANY substance on obama:
-flag pins
-his former preacher said god damn america
-57 states!!1!
-bittergate
-the clap!! automakers DID IN FACT give obama the CLAP!!! this is HUGH! series...pffft...

we have on the GOP:
-iraq
-recession
-katrina
-oh i could go on, but I wouldn't think i would NEED to on a democratic site!

just who are y'all fighting for here? obama HAS the nomination. it is quite one thing to continue to support hillary until she exits, but is it really necessary to continue to demean obama with GOP talking points- i repeat, with GOP talking points??

on edit: oops- meant as reply to OP- sorry cbc!

is where it becomes clear. there is an unmitigated difference between prejudice and racism. i grew up in the thick of it and can spot it from a mile away.

when someone comes here and makes an "observation" or asks a "question" that is racially charged, loaded, or set up for flameage, then insists and pleads with people to "admit" "we're all racists at heart- we're only human"- that is not an attempt to discuss- that is an attempt to justify via obfuscation and presentation of some imaginary brotherhood their irrational and self-important frustration and/or hatred.

i'm not trying to categorize anyone to to claim "perfection" or "flawlessness." nothing (bigotry/sexism of any type) is more infuriating or a better indicator of supreme stupidity- and no, i'm not afraid or ashamed to admit i AM above it, but i don't deny my flaws, i don't deny that i've made mistakes in judgment. i'm not crazy about the sly implication that i'm being self-righteous for calling it out and because i hold myself above such not-so-inborn "values."

when falwell preached hellfire and brimstone, he was acknowledging the wrath of god, condemning people for "sins" such as homosexuality and feminism and hedonism, saying innocent people deserved such fates as 9/11, hurricanes, and other disasters, and basically got a pass.

when wright cited the damning of america, he was invoking the wrath of humanity, condemning real concrete sins like racism, predatory capitalism and imperialism, torture, war, otherwise known as state-sanctioned murder, saying that guilty people deserved their fates at the hands of the people who would ultimately revolt, and yet, even among "dems," he is "racist" and "america hating."

does it boil down to skin color? hm...

lame.

if going to church with an outspoken and provocotive preacher IS the worst thing obama has done, then i'm with him all the way.

sanctioning the death of the US? are you fucking kidding me? i thought that lack-of-context o'reilly shit was gone and buried, at least for dems.

and yep, i WILL blame hillary and her husband for many things that are wrong with United States- starting with NAFTA.

i am a democrat and i refuse to support pretend democrats who pander to warmongering neocon republicans and lead the DLC (read: warmongering neocon "democrats").

i'll write in obama- i'd even be a part of a campaign to do it; if not, kucinich, or edwards in the unlikely event she gets the nom.

but i will never, ever vote for hillary clinton, and if she wins the nomination, then i will leave DU without being asked, because i am well-aware of the rule that we're required to support the nominee.

Mags says that half the party won't vote for "the precious one"- well i've met some far more gracious obama supporters who would vote for hillary, but the republicans, the ones that would boost him in the GE, like my husband and some extended family members and friends, those "crossover voters" and indys who are happily supporting barack obama would never vote for a clinton- she would lose those people he reaches out to, not just the ones rush has voting for her, and she would lose "not-real-democrats" (seen upthread) like me.

and as for "not-real-democrats," i am a democrat through and through, and i don't know how you could define me by the fact that i refuse to support someone who is aligned with murdoch, sciafe, john "experienced" mccain, someone with such awful behavior recently (the sky will open up, shame on you, you-might-be-a-muslim-if, wright, etc etc etc), who voted IWR, and then kyl/lieberman, who promised to obliterate iran (where she officially lost my even pinched-nose vote), and didn't even bother trying to push that she misspoke and in fact reiterated it.

obama may not be pacifist, but he's by far less a warmonger than hillary clinton. in my eyes, the clintons aren't just "moderate dems," they aren't even "conservative dems." in my eyes, they might as well be on the same team as john w mcbush- they've batted for them after all.

Why do you hate my house, Obama?

and my $30? don't you realize that I could take my family to Shoneys one day this year for $30? that's what real americans want- dinner at shoney's once a year.

and WAR? huh? why do you hate war, mr obama? do you hate the deaths of innocents and obliteration? that's what real americans want- obliterations- screw other cultures, screw other lives- ours is the only one that should be preserved, cause they're all out to GET US! why do you hate spreading demockracy?

and flag pins? what's wrong with flag pins? do you hate the flag? do you hate america? real americans sport the flag daily, and even on their pajamas.

and why does your former pastor hate the KKK? does he hate white ppl? why? everybody should love white ppl! we have britney spears, and paris hilton!

and why won't you admit you're muslim, Obama? huh? Do you hate muslims? huh? are you a self-hatin turrist?

and why do you hate bitterness, O?

and why do you not call yourself "O"? Do you hate Oprah? why do you hate Oprah?

where? by whom? mccamy taylor? or someone in the corporate media?

i'd rather use my own ability to discern- i'd say that insisting obama is a muslim, osamaing him, flagpinning him, wrighting him 24-7, softballing clinton and propping up her "concern" and her "fighter"tude and her "underdog"ness suggests otherwise.

when gore "lost" the election, he was portrayed as a sore loser for trying to prove that he actually won, while bush was the triumphant victor.

hillary actually loses, and she is a fighter, an underdog- sure, sometimes the media does something that puts her in the victim's corner, but it goes away and is quickly forgotten, and real issues such as robogate come up- wouldn't you expect an msm who "hates" hillary to be ALL OVER IT? like WRIGHT ON RICE? er...you know what i mean.

meanwhile obama the "muslim," who "hates the flag you can tell b/c he refuses to sport it on his lapel," "can't close the deal," and is a "controversial figure" because of his former controversial pastor- who has also been plagued by distortion and obfuscation; minor quibbles like bittergate turn into month-long "problems" that are "hurting" obama in the polls.

there, now i just "proved" it.

i have listened to several different versions. i've listened to "enhanced' versions that sound faked, and i've listened to original versions at full volume. the videos are being removed because they are slanderous.

it doesn't make any sense, first off. even when i kinda sorta in a way "bought it" i still thought it sounded nonsensical.

he was looking at poll numbers. he was excited. he said, "these people are shitting!" with glee, and then said something to the effect of "how would you like to be in the white house right now?" either people are hearing what they want to hear or they are really reaching.

we are going to regret using this. there is a MUCH bigger scandal that has gotten hardly a whisper on DU (not to take away from berni mccoy's op)- it's criminal, and yet this BULLSHIT is stealing the spotlight. i suppose it wouldn't exactly hurt the clinton camp for people to be distracted by this when there is a potential CRIMINAL investigation for ELECTION FRAUD.

i said it's disgusting, but it is not. what's disgusting is people actually trying to use this. i've listened to different versions, even versions that supposedly make it "clear" that he did say what he's accused of saying, and i do not believe he said the shit part or the other.

it didn't make much sense to begin with and i thought it was puzzling, but now, it's clear that this is bs.

once again, i am the last person to defend clinton, and have zero tolerance for racism or classism or whatever this would be called, but i am also the last person to accept and have zero tolerance for false charges and reaching for it.

though i wouldn't have been shocked, i'm ashamed i even almost believed it.

i do NOT hear him saying what he supposedly said.

it clearly sounds like "those people are shitting" and "how would you like to be in the white house" or "that room/house." i didn't even hear a word resembling that nasty word.

this has to stop or we will be burned a la wright. this is no better than that ridiculous "controversy." why are there 8 million threads on this and only a small handful on robogate- a criminal scandal with solid evidence that deserves far more concern? this is petty bs in comparison to other clinton-gates.

i agree, it's disgusting, but i have to say, this has been largely questioned, and is not top on my list of reasons for not wanting hillary clinton for president. it would not surprise me if it were real necessarily, but as it's somewhat questionable...eh...

if i'm going to go after her/them for past events she may or may not have been directly involved with or in, i'd have to go for ROBO-gate, her taking-obama's-word-for-it/muslim implication, NAFTA, welfare reform, iraq sanctions, telecom '96, iwr, kyl/lieberman, patriot act, obliteration, and other bush/cheney/rw enabling.

this is borderline stooping to her level, not quite, but akin to her obfuscating w/ the wright scandal. there is so much more substance to other awful things the clinton's have been involved with and are responsible for.

clinton passed...in which ownership regulations were eliminated...yeah. clinton would oppose media consolidation...riiight...

and yeah, sure, the media loves obama...just look at all the nice publicity they've given wright and claimed "damage" on obama...and how they like to "accidentally" confuse his name- o"s"ama...