I really hope you're going to remove, PERMANENTLY, that disgusting, disgraceful line of products that uses a Bible quote to advocate killing our President.
I can't possibly consider doing business or placing an order with a company that allows this. You're giving them an implicit endorsement if you do. Frankly it makes me wonder if somebody at CafePress wants to see the president killed, because you're putting YOUR money and your name behind this.
Thanks, LynneSin, for posting this. I don't do a lot of business with CafePress. I certainly won't be doing - or considering - ANY, because of this.
These people terrify me! Spoiled pissant sore losermen who threaten death, destruction, and assassination if they don't get their way (or THEIR guy in the White House). What Is With These People? Who brought them up? What kind of shit were they fed with their Pablum every morning?
For heaven's sake! WE simply wanted bush OUT OF THE PEOPLE'S HOUSE he stole and was squatting in for eight undeserved years. We wanted him IMPEACHED, removed, and prosecuted for war crimes and high treason. We wanted justice, and the rule of law, to deal with him, NOT some extremist wannabe avenging vigilante. If anything, we wanted him in jail, but certainly alive and well and uninjured. But as much as we despised him, I never saw anybody here, or heard anyone of my peers who also despised him, wishing upon him the kind of fate these assholes want for Obama. NEVER! What I've seen over and over here AND ELSEWHERE is testimony of the loathing we had for him but also, repeatedly, the expressed hope that nothing violent would ever happen to him.
But these people, on the other hand...
Just makes me shake my head in disbelief. And a very real sense of fear and dread. I believe many of these people do want the worst for Obama, and every word that comes out of the mouths of beck, limbaugh, and that-guy-whose-name-rhymes-with-Vanity and the rest of their false prophets inflames them further, especially as time goes on and they get angrier and more desperate to do something to "fix it". I fear that one of them is finally gonna blow in an attempt to be some sort of "hero" to sarah palin and her ilk. And to think they shrieked like asylum inmates when the Department of Homeland Security issued a report warning about the rise of "right"-wing extremist groups...
Hey, you knuckledraggers, I want MY America back (NOT YOURS, EVER)!!!!!!!
do more than shrug about it can be concerned about.
And I'm glad to hear there is a debunking forum here - I myself am not sure where it is and I don't have as much time to enjoy long stretches here anymore so I can go searching for it. I probably should. I love to see debunking of this shit. Posted a little of it from time to time myself.
I see no reason why we still can't do some debunking here and then post a link to other areas of DU where there's more.
I see no reason why somebody ought not to post one of those accursed teabagger emails here to get ideas for rebuttal from the more verbose and in-yer-face among the rest of us.
Somebody here, somewhere, is bound to get an idea for a way to rebut one of these emails if it darkens their online door. OR to recognize that a written challenge or smack-down of an email can also supply one-liners and comments and details that you can use verbally, the next time you're confronted by some freeper at some party or family get-together.
And even for those who just pass by, it's a valuable signal that we're still on it, we're still vigilant, we're still suited up and ready for battle. Nothing like knowing that quiver you just set down is still loaded with arrows.
And even for those who just pass by and perhaps scoff because they've never been bothered by such emails and are annoyed by those who keep posting about them, guess what? An hour from now they're liable to find one of those emails in their own inbox, sent by some extended family member or inlaw who "wants you just to pass this on if you love your country."
It's incredibly disappointing. All we worked for. I think we have to up the pressure. What got noticed? The squeaky wheels - even with all their heads securely up their asses. They had an impact. We have our work cut out for us - from coast to coast.
The problem is - I think our so-called reps take us for granted. There's the mentality to which we are more or less held hostage: "well, where else are they gonna go?" And I think many of us on the progressive/liberal end are going to have to take a long hard look at that.
If we seek to break away from the Democratic Party and form a more perfect Progressive/Liberal party, that move will come with a big price tag. A divided party means the bad guys will come in and steal a LOT of seats from us. It will be a generation or more before WE would ever see the kind of political party or true political representation with any numerical strength for which so many of us here have been yearning. We're stuck with the miserable, capitulating weasels and amoebae that supposedly "represent" us. And it makes me sick.
But I don't know what alternative we have - OTHER THAN to start making our "reps" quake in their boots. You've GOT to know that the teabaggers and town hall hissy-fitters got the attention of SOME of 'em. Enough of 'em to make a difference. Are we ready to start going out there en masse and really making a serious showing? One that can't be avoided by the media? How much of an effort are each of us willing to make?
Hey, I worked like a dog all last year for Obama and other candidates I supported. I gave til it hurt. My husband and I actually had house parties - which we've never done before (although I have attended a few). And Obama won and we were exultant and hopeful as hell. But the momentum waned after that. And it's been a problem on our side - FOR YEARS. Look at the gains we made during the 60's and even into the '70's - and what happened after that, when large enough numbers of us said - "WOW! Mission Accomplished! YESSSS!" And then we let our guard down, figuring that we had most of this in the bag and had fixed many of the problems and the worst of it had been protected and that was that. We thought, for example, that a woman's right to choose was a done deal, no problem, we're safe now, coast is finally clear. And everybody celebrated and packed up their offices and went home and moved on to other things. Let our guard down. Because it's a done deal. We're safe. End of discussion.
The problem was that - to enough of the bad guys out there, this was ANYTHING BUT the end of discussion. They decided to stay in the game and fight and they had fire in their gut and found backers to finance them and their machinery and think tanks and moguls who could start buying up the media and consolidating power and just a whole bunch of shit and they started doing EVERYTHING they could to chip away at what we'd worked so hard to achieve. And it took awhile to build up a head of steam, but build up they did. And look what's happened! Even as recently as yesterday with the Stupid amendment. And We're Still Coddling Them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't think we're going to be able to have the impact we want until and unless some of us somewhere are willing to go for broke. Like, for the life of me, I don't understand why some rich liberals or movie people, fuck - SOMEBODY on our side who's wealthy can't band together and start buying radio stations. And stitch together OUR OWN FRICKIN' EXCELLENCE IN BROADCASTING NETWORK. That has hundreds of stations that have to take OUR programming and yes, OUR propaganda, and where we can start building OUR OWN LIBERAL/PROGRESSIVE ON-AIR FARM TEAM with great talent that, most critically, has VEHICLES for exposing and expressing that talent. But our side doesn't do that!!! WHY, I do not understand. Our side doesn't sink a huge load of money into lots of think tanks and foundations that are the spawning ground of OUR OWN liberal/progressive wonks and power brokers and media influencers and so forth. WHY are we not doing that?
Yes, I know, WE here on DU don't have much clout but how many liberals/progressives out there do? And where are they? And why don't they want to go bigtime? I mean REALLY bigtime? So we have the power and clout to outshout the glenn becks and limbaughs and the rest of 'em that martial thousands of knuckledraggers to go out and make a stink. Some will say we'd lower ourselves to their level by doing so. FUCK THAT!!! They get noticed! We need to get noticed! Or we won't have the impact they do.
And they have somehow touched off the Fear of God in enough reps that we just barely squeaked this stupid wash-out of a "health care reform bill" through the frickin' House. And what I fear is that the bad guys now thus have more momentum maybe to go all the way to killing whatever little shreds are left of health care reform in the Senate. And where the fuck is Obama? Well, okay he made a call that maybe helped a little in this one case. He got his one damn fucking republi-CON. Okay fine!!! Can we declare it official bipartisan support and then call it a day on that shit? No. And who's leaning hard as possible on those who should by all rights be doing that on our behalf? Hard enough, anyway?
From all the years I've been around and been aware of these things, it seems to me that there is not a large enough hardcore core of those who think as we do and want what we want for our country - that keeps on turning up the heat - high enough. We Dems and liberals tend to get discouraged easily and we give up or maybe we're just so used to being intimidated that we go there naturally by now - it's an instinctive default position we have. I don't know.
All I know is that there have to be consequences for going against what we expect from our reps. They genuinely have to have the Fear of God that OUR wrath will be worse than that of the assholes of the wrong wing. And I just don't see enough of a critical mass of us with that kind of fire in our belly. I mean - hell - look at ME! Tired and discouraged and happy to have some other things to think about (my kid's band). And I have to work hard to force myself to take my own advice (yeah, like they'd really care, 'eh?). The Dems have to understand that if they don't do what we want, they may well be out of jobs in January 2011. And - in that event, We Are ALL Screwed. Because you know who gets the majority if we don't. And yeah, like they'll ever give a damn about achieving REAL health care reform.
And, unfortunately, because they CAN. Scarcely anyone who could do something about it ever seems to want to. Consequences for bad behavior? Perish the thought!!!!
Litmus-test time. One of those situations in which - if boner is unhappy about it, there must be something good about it.
It's like something else I ran across in a post here - a Blue Cross statement on its website, I think, that started with "Blue Cross is disappointed that... "
Well okay then! That's pretty much all I need to hear. Point of departure and all that. If Blue Cross finds this disappointing, then there must be something positive about it for all the rest of us.
perceiving correctly that the two parties are just a bunch of pissant politicians who'd rather fight than actually get something done for the benefit of the country. The "a pox on BOTH your houses" effect may start taking root. I don't know, it's just a little discouraging, I must admit. Somebody elsewhere here posted something about - imagine if we'd had to depend on some of these weasels for civil rights legislation. Good Lord!
It's such a good line I wanted to remember it. We ought to start spreading it around. Adjust people's thinking a little. Where would we be today on some of the really crucial human progress this nation has been able to make - if we'd had to coddle these infants who don't want to grow up (or see ANYBODY ELSE grow up either)? If this mentality had prevailed, blacks would still be worthy of only partial value as human beings, and women would have next to none.
What is it about that undisputable fact that they still don't get?
Is it just battered wife syndrome or something?
Just ONCE I'd like to see somebody put a figurative track shoe or a spike heel through the throats of those bastards on one of these things. Even once!!! Just ONCE I'd like to see them treated like the spoiled-brat, tantrum-throwing three-year-olds they are (by a vigilant parent, that is). Oh, excuse me, they ARE being treated like the spoiled-brat, tantrum-throwing three-year-olds they are (by negligent, lazy parents who believe that ANY discipline as a consequence for bad behavior will some how cramp their style or damage their self-esteem). I remember just a couple of years ago when they even stood up and stomped out of the House in a hissy-fit because they weren't getting their way. If I'd been Nancy Pelosi, I would have waited until they had all left to go do their little stunt outside where they'd tipped off the cameras they were going to gather, and once they'd all cleared out, I'd have ordered the Sergeant-at-Arms to lock the doors and gaveled the proceedings inside back to order. THEN we would have gotten a few things accomplished WITHOUT those selfish, misbehaving bastards trying to block some critical business that needed to be taken care of. That might help teach them that - hey, don't pull that shit again! If you don't want to be locked out, then stay inside and figure out how to work properly with THE MAJORITY, SORE LOSERMAN ASSHOLES.
I swear some of our Dems seem interested ONLY in treating them like THEY won, like THEY'RE the majority party, like THEY'RE really supposed to be calling the shots. WTF??????????????
And for me, it also gets down to one really simple issue. If they can't even stand up to the republi-CONS on the matter of botching the very NAME of our party, how the hell can they stand up to the republi-CONS on anything else???
And yes, I'm committing the same offense: republi-CONS instead of "Republicans." I, too, can do this deliberately, just like they can. And I will continue to do so unless and/or until they start using the proper name of our party and not the one they think should be our name.
And a fair amount of disgust toward the Dems - NONE of whom have EVER made an issue of these assholes getting our party's name wrong. SHEESH!!!! They can't even to stand up to the bad guys on THIS? How on earth can the Dems stand up to the schmucks on really critical issues on which we all need their representation and their vigilance, when they won't even deal with THIS?
Shit. Just disgusted.
And of course now they're debating the Stupid Amendment - which shouldn't even be an issue for heaven's sake!!!!
Yes, you realize it's probably an exercise in futility.
Yes, you realize you're not going to change their minds.
Yes, you realize you're not going to help them into the light.
Yes, you realize some people's souls are simply unredeemable.
BUT:
What you CAN do is give them proof of the very visible and very present and VERY adamant opposition THAT HAS THEM SURROUNDED.
What you CAN do is give them the feeling of the walls closing in on them and the tide flowing against them.
What you CAN do is offer them confusion - well, the teabagger organizers tell me EVERYBODY EVERYWHERE is against this, but then why do I keep gettin' these dang letters...
What you CAN do is DESTABILIZE THE ENEMY. Yes, they're still there. Yes, they're still standing. Yes, they're still being blockheads and assholes and ignorant, stubborn, selfish cheapskates. But maybe some of 'em (like, maybe, yours?) are a little unsure of themselves. They go along because they're lemmings and they have the groupthink to hide behind, but forced to stand out there alone, exposed, and still pushing this shit WILL give some of them a knot or two in their stomachs. They'll be standing there alright, but noticing there are rocks in their shoes and the ground they're standing on is actually sinkhole territory. They'll be standing there but maybe a bit shakier than normal - because THEY'RE gonna be up for reelection, too. AND they know they face troubles from more than just you. They've got enemies in their own camp - extremists worse than they are, who messed it up bigtime for the GOP in that New York State district that was always republi-CON until that nutcase wacko hoffman got in there and fucked it up for the GOP candidate and made her bail and then the Democrat danced past them both and won it.
What you CAN do is force them to lose a LOT of sleep, and pop a LOT of Maalox tablets and blood pressure pills, wondering deep-down if maybe they're on the wrong side here, starting secretly to hate how haggard they look in the bathroom mirror in the morning and how increasingly thankless this job of theirs is. You want them nursing such thoughts as - "shit, there's gotta be a better way to earn a living..." or "Dear God, do I need this? Really???" Or better yet - "does my family need this? Is it REALLY worth it?"
What you CAN do is make their job more difficult, make them more uncomfortable, and sow seeds of insecurity, doubt, and discontent.
DESTABILIZING THE ENEMY is an EXTREMELY valuable strategy. Longterm, it's a winner. A destabilized enemy doesn't fight as well or as hard or as efficiently or as sharply-focused or as effectively. A destabilized enemy is demoralized, uncertain, hesitant, wondering why the hell this is still worth it. A destabilized enemy is one that's on its way to eventual, and inevitable, defeat. That's what the teabaggers tried to do at those town hall meetings - "shake 'em up and knock 'em off their stride." Well, it's not just the teabaggers that can do that, and have that effect on their opponents! It's US TOO! It's YOU - with your knuckledragging alleged "representative." This is what you can do and the lovely gesture you can make to them - every day if you feel so inclined.
You don't win now, in such a situation. But you set it up so that you're far more likely to win in the future. What you DON'T EVER WANT is an enemy that's strong, united, focused, and unfettered by doubt, disagreement, distraction, or uncertainty. You want to sow as much dissonance, and uncertainty, and disharmony, and fear and insecurity about their jobs and the stand they've taken. For some, you have to KNOW they're having some second thoughts about taking the stand they have - especially if they keep being reminded about how many millions of us there are who adamantly want what they're trying to block.
DESTABILIZE THE ENEMY. Critical and essential in its importance!
even so. They chickened out from a war that they promoted and thought was REALLY REALLY REALLY important for somebody ELSE to go fight. But woe to anyone who calls them chickenhawks.
Truth hurts, doesn't it tom? And heaven forbid, while you're out there grandstanding about war and veterans and how you know so damn much about all of it and you're more-patriotic-than-thou, somebody yanks your pants down in public and reveals your chickenhawk Pampers underneath. Heaven just forbid that would happen!
We certainly can't have this, now, can we? Hypocrisy unmasked.
A) further empower and embolden the Party of "NO."
B) grow big, bright, fat yellow stripes down the backs of wavering Dems who MIGHT have been arm-twistable here - finally finally finally to get something accomplished on this issue for the first time since Harry Truman's day.
C) likely ensure that we lose the majority in 2010, or come close enough that revisiting health care reform thus hobbled isn't even considered an option any longer.
D) give more momentum to the glenn peckers and the tea baggers who'll LOUDLY and WIDELY call this a big personal victory, which may also give them more of their own running for and maybe even winning Congressional seats of their own.
E) dispirit and discourage TOO MANY Democratic grass-roots activists who gave their all AND THEN SOME last year to win workable majorities in both Houses of Congress EXPRESSLY to address some of these long-overdue necessities. And we saw full well how a discouraged base tends to say "the hell with it" and stay home on Election Day.
We will VERY PROBABLY NOT get another shot OF ANY SORT at this - for maybe another generation if we fail now - while we still have a chance!!!! Do you really want to risk that? I say we twist her arm til it damn near breaks off. As i - if she wants or expects ANYTHING for her district besides a used snot rag, she better find a way to be okay with this. Sometimes you've gotta go for it while there's still time. Because the longer this drags out, the less and less hope we have for a positive outcome of ANY sort. Which is exactly why the bad guys are trying desperately to string this out as long as they can. People lose their guts, their enthusiasm, their resolve, after awhile. If you can wear 'em down, you've stolen their win. It's too much to risk.
That hate is SO deeply ingrained, over so many reasons, that it would take an awfully long time to subside even if we were to stop the wars. But that would be a place to start.
Seems to me there's SO MUCH opposition out there, and reasons galore - so many that are understandable. And some of those we CAN do something about.
Look, we portray them as evil in our media; the pervasive, imperialistic attitude from our part of the world that OUR oil is under THEIR sand (who was it just recently who said we're ENTITLED to the Iraqis' oil because of all the war-waging and blood-spilling we've done over there, hey, some of that blood-spill even our own, so there!); our historical imperialism that they see applied to every corner of the globe that we touch - aha! ("See? That's simply who they are, those American pirates" with their multi-national corporate greed-meisters - they're not to be trusted, they do this to EVERYONE"); our behavior only seems to reinforce long-held grievances (Crusades, anyone?); there are nutcases here that would beat them up in the street, and who know next-to-nothing. Persians? Iraqis? Iranians? Saudis? Pakistanis? "FUCK 'EM, ALL THEM AY-RABS!!!" THAT mentality. The mentality that makes some fat-assed, beer-swilling putz arrive at a Dodger game wearing a T-shirt in public that has a cartoon of Saddam Hussein being butt-fucked by Uncle Sam, while the Saddam character is crying out to Allah to save him while the Uncle Sam character is yelling something like "Yeah! You're getting "Allah" me!" And said T-shirt is paraded around in front of every individual in Dodger Stadium, including small children. THAT mentality. BTW - I witnessed that utterly obscene, abominable T-shirt, personally, sitting in front of me at a Dodger game just after the Iraq War had started. Actually, I take that back slightly. It was sitting in the row in front of our whole party, and directly in front of my then 10-year-old son.
That kind of offensive mindset, over the YEARS - decades, even centuries - shown to millions of Middle Easterners MIGHT be treatable, MIGHT be addressable. Unfortunately, the biggest and most ferocious issue that keeps us at each other's throats is the entire matter of Israel. And THAT problem is going to be virtually impossible to solve as long as the U.S. maintains its rock-solid, uncompromising support of Israel. And the Palestinians keep taking it in the shorts. And Israeli settlers keep building more settlements in what Palestinians keep believing is THEIR territory. And everyone in THREE of the world's Great Religions remains in conflict and opposition over who should control Jerusalem, etc. etc.
As long as those problems remain unsolved, especially that most difficult one of them all, the West will always feel hatred from the Islamic world. Merely stopping the Iraq and Afghanistan wars will barely start scratching the surface. It'd be a start, though. A symbol, a gesture of note. But it would only be the beginning. You think Obama has mountains to move with a spoon collection - now?
DEMS!!!!! You fuck this up - and you're fucked. They'll come back to get you and you'll be Vulnerable As HELL!!! You'll just give them more ammo and make their case for them.
I've already heard this morning after last night's elections that "they have the White House, the House AND the Senate, and they can't get anything done."
OUCH.
That is a VERY powerful argument. VERY powerful. If I were the bad guys, I'd be running with that one - EVERYWHERE.
