she is one of the few politicians that has fought for them to get the care and disability they deserve. BTW NY has two Senators. Where's Schumer on this?
She has fought to get veterans their benefits and care. She helped sponsor the SCHIP program for poor children and children whose parents medical insurance doesn't cover the bills.
As first lady she set up an office for women veterans. I'm one of those that office helped. I doubt I'm the only one. She was one of the driving forces behind the international conference held for women's rights.
Obama has created programs, as a State legislator for the poor. he served on a charitable board that gives money to disadvantaged children to help them go to college. He has worked, at the state level, on programs to help get out the vote in normally overlooked areas (poor and minority voters).
Why does one have to be Hillary supporter to point out an unfair or egregious attack on anyone?
As a result of my personal research I think Don Seigelman got the shaft. Does that make me a Hillary supporter?
I understand emotions can run high during political campaigns. But why not save the attacks for the real opposition?
Alienate a good percentage of the Democratic voting base what do you get? You get President McCain.
Should Bush be held accountable? Yes? Will either Hillary or Obama do it? I don't know. Will McCain do it? Definitely not.
Or do those statements make me a Hillary Supporter too?
And if I am a Hillary supporter what's wrong with that? Should I be sent to Gitmo or renditioned? Or should I just shut up and do as I'm told? My bad, I thought I was a member of the Democratic Party where all political points of view (with obvious exceptions) are welcomed.
I've tried to be fair but c'mon! This one person is the most evil politician in the history of the Democratic party? At least, in my opinion, that's how she's being portrayed here.
She ain't perfect. Neither is Obama. Obama has taken his share of sleazy jabs at Clinton too. I've admired many Democratic politicians over the years. But I've never thought one was perfect.
BTW, her NY constituents really like her. She won by an even larger margin when she ran for re-election to the Senate. Where did her numbers increase the most? In the rural, conservative parts of NY state.
I still believe that Obama will win the nomination. I'll vote for him if he does. But anyone who thinks that Hillary's attacks are more vicious and more racist than what the Republicans will do is off the mark IMHO.
I don't buy the racism, or the sleaziness, or any of it. What is she supposed to do when her many of her statements are twisted? Obama taken his fair share of unkind and unpleasant jabs at Clinton too. But when Hillary does it she should be drummed out of the party forever?
Remember, in Connecticut, Hillary said she would support the democratic nominee. That was Ned Lamont. She did support him and gave money to his campaign. But Obama, who supported Lieberman, should stay?
The media has also jumped on the band wagon. The same media that lied about Gore and Kerry. The same media that spawned Judith Miller and the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth (ugh!). Now, the media is telling the truth when it goes on and on about Hillary's supposed faults and racism? What a difference one campaign makes!
McCain and the NY Times knew exactly what they were doing. Releasing this story during the primaries would have hurt McCain's nomination chances. Releasing it now allows McCain to attack the "liberal media".
It's a tried and true right-wing tactic. Cow the media into compliance or silence by using the liberal smear. McCain gets glowing press for the rest of the campaign. The press excuses it by claiming to be "fair and balanced". Heck, the NY Times may even print a retraction or apology.
I've said (and others on DU as well) many times that we liberals shouldn't get over confident. That Rove and the right-wing weren't gone yet.
It's the same scenario as the last two elections. Our nominee will not have to fight only the Republicans but the press as well.
Edited to add: earlier in the primaries when Mitt was still in the race
I get your point and I agree. What's more important? Hating Hillary and the DLC, or winning in November? The DLC and Hillary are not going to disappear between now and then.
There has been an overwhelming Democratic turn out for the primaries. However, some percentage of those voters did vote for Hillary. We need enough votes in the GE to keep the Republicans from stealing this one. To tell any Democrat that their vote is not needed is political suicide.
We're supposed to be the reality based folks. The reality is - all Democratic votes and voters are important. You don't have to like it but that's the way it is.
I would never suggest disenfranchising Obama supporters if the situation were reversed. Aren't we the party that wants every vote to count? Even the votes of those with whom we disagree?
The Republicans win unless there is massive voter turnout absent a third party Republican challenger.
This is what I've been trying to get across for some time. Telling your fellow Democrats that you don't need their vote helps no-one. The more Democrats that vote this fall, the better. It makes it harder for the opposition to steal another election.
I, too, considered not voting at all. But this election is too important. From my view, this election is literally a matter of life and death. But if I "take my toys and go home" what do I get? A bunch of meaningless toys that I'm too old to play with.
a little civility here? It's great Obama is winning. But to say he doesn't need Hillary voters is to court political suicide.
They don't have to stay home you know. They could vote 3rd party. They could write in Gore or Edwards.
They could even vote for McCain.
True, Obama has the majority of the votes now. People do change their minds - and their votes. Obama talks of us coming together for change. I don't think anyone should be dismissive or arrogant toward those who don't agree.
just a little condescending here. Don't gloat. I said this on another thread: I was taught to be gracious in both victory and defeat. Don't kick people when they're down. They just may get up swinging. Another thought: can Obama win without the support of the Hillary voters? I don't think so. The Repubs aren't gone yet. Rove has been reanimated. What Hillary has thrown at Obama will look story time compared to the Repubs. Rove & Co. have plenty of time to gear up the Obama slime machine. Remember, in 2004, we all thought the swift boat thing would go nowhere. After all, it wasn't true. True or not, in the end, it damaged Kerry badly. It cost him a large chunk of the veteran vote. As close as the election was that may have made the difference. The same may be true of Hillary supporters this time. They could make that difference that keeps the Repubs from stealing this one. No candidate is perfect. Everybody has at least one skeleton in their closet. If the MSM haven't found anything on Obama you can bet Rove will. Even if he has to, as usual, make it up. People say they don't like negative campaigning. Well it's worked for the Repubs so far. At least at the presidential level. Just saying.
You've just expressed how I've been feeling. I've been surfing several websites lately. I've posted very infrequently. I was leaning toward Hillary. I noticed that any defense of her, based on facts not on emotion, was attacked viciously. I also defended Obama when I spotted a misrepresentation of what he said or did. I was praised by Obama supporters. Hillary supporters who disagreed were attacked viciously. There is an aspect of hero-worship in the Obama support that I don't find in Hillary supporters. I leaned her way for practical reasons based on years of following politics. It's apparent now that she's losing, badly. I'll gladly vote for, donate to, Obama. When I expressed this opinion elsewhere I was again attacked by some Obama supporters for lack of enthusiasm. I was feeling hopeless and yes, hurt. Damned if I did or didn't. Then I got angry and considered not voting at all. Then realized that would be well, stupid. It would behoove Obama supporters not to gloat too much. It hurts to lose. Remember that. I suggest commiserating with Hillary supporters and then getting to work to get Obama elected. I was taught to be gracious in both victory and defeat. Sorry for the long post. Just had to get that off my chest.
for this. I saw the same thing happening. I was worrying perhaps I had become too partisan or cynical. But you're right. It isn't just about Edwards, although that is a shame, it's about how the media have decided to be king makers. They decide the candidates they like and don't. It shows in the reporting bias or lack of reporting. I guess with Edwards' withdrawal they think they've gotten their way. I wouldn't be so sure. I think most of us have had enough. Perhaps a day or two of constant emails to the various networks and columnists would work. That tactic held the line, so far, delaying the FISA vote. I've been doing it for months but feel like a voice crying in the wilderness. We'll never get our democracy back if this goes on. We outed them about the voting machines. IMHO they've just switched tactics. Now they're using (so-called) journalists.
isn't she? She has no idea of the depth of anger and suffering of the American people. She has no idea of the depth of suffering the US government has inflicted on others that are no military or economic threat to us (Haiti anyone?). She doesn't care that the rest of the world sees us as some sort of war-mongering nut jobs that torture and slaughter just because we can. Pelosi is beyond a disappointment. She is a traitor to the Constitution. By definition that makes her a traitor to her country. Missing emails and documents, defiance of Congressional subpoenas. She doesn't think those things divide and hurt this nation? This is beyond pitiful. This is treason.
They are not going to walk miles just to vote multiple times. They're too worried about not starving to death to hatch any voter fraud schemes. Felons have the right to vote in some states when their time is served. If that's not true in a particular state then it is the state's responsibility to keep those records.
The biggest problem is with the voting machines, not the voters. I watched a Diebold machine flip ALL of my votes in 2004. I had to call the election worker for help. I'm still not sure whom I voted for. No paper trail you see.
Why do the poor and illegals get blamed for everything? They have neither the money nor the power to game the system. The government and corporate America do.
I grew up poor in the inner city. NOBODY I knew cheated when they voted. The poor, those who have been imprisoned, illegals(they do anything to stay below the radar for the most part), are easy targets. But they don't write the laws. Neither do they have the power to enforce them. That's our representatives jobs. It's why we elect them.
Every state I've ever voted in required some form of ID. It's nothing new. The neocons are trying to convince people that there's a secret cabal of poor, felon, illegals just waiting to steal elections. That idea would be funny If it weren't so sad.
Everything is going great in Iraq. if you don't count dead/maimed Iraqis and GIs. If you don't count Iraqi refugees. If you don't count the ruined infrastructure. If you don't count the torture and murder. If you don't count families selling their children to survive. If you don't count Iraqi women and girls selling their bodies to survive. Best of all, let's not count the underground child slavery/sex industry that's positively booming.
As you said, it's not "petty" to take a country into war based on lies. Or to illegally spy on American citizens. Or to pass a law ending habeas corpus. Or to sign off on torture in violation of the Geneva Conventions and US law. Or to steal two elections. Or to... The list is way too long. But thank you. I too, am tired of some people being dismissive of these things. These are things that can slowly destroy a democracy. It's going to take more than hope and bipartisanship. Particularly when the other side has no intention of keeping its word. There's one thing I do agree with Hillary about. I don't think Senator Obama has any idea how vicious and unrelenting the other side can be. I think that's the experience she keeps alluding to. You're exactly correct in your view. I just wish some folk would get it.
