I'd say, Obama's move to the right is exactly what brought OWS out into

the streets --

and the message is that both parties are finished!


Koch Bros. funded DLC infiltrated and influenced the party for more than 20 years,

including the party agenda and its candidates --

The party is now controlled by Third Way -- and their basic policy/stance is that

"the base of the party is to be ignored" --


Granted there are a FEW Democrats left -- but seemingly there is nothing left of the

Democratic Party which is supportable -- !!


There are still a few Democrats clinging to hope for the next election, and still supporting the people of this country, who are not the same.



Additionally, just to recap -- a few weeks ago I caught Jonathan Cowan on C-span/Washington

Journal -- and he made clear that their stance/policy is "that the base of the party is to

be ignored" --

Additionally, he related to the C-span audience that ...

"populism and populist discussion and debate is the equivalent of Karl Rove propaganda of

extremism" -- !!


Got that? New Deal, Social Security, Medicare, safety nets is Karl Rove extremism!


Who could possibly support any of this?


Yes -- I will support the FEW -- with individual contributions -- but they exist only within

a party under the control of corporations.


If you recall what they did to Byron Dorgan when he tried to move Medicare negotiation on

prescription drugs, you understand the futility of this. Byron's next move was to be to reinstate

Glass-Steagall. After the party abandoned him on the Medicare issue that didn't happen -- and

he announced he wouldn't run for another term.


How much longer are we going to kid ourselves?

Because the longer we wait, the further the party and Congress will move to the RIGHT!

One fantastic book on this is "Murder on the Couch" ---

Can't think of the name of the author at the moment but begins with a "D" --

Something like Donenz?

Quite a history --


It also continues to benefit some interests to insist that the brain is separate from the body!

Rather, whatever damage is done to us, it impacts first on the brain.

We've had murderous damage done to the environment and nature -- and certainly to ourselves.

No one looks at that!!


Mental illness is based simply on chemical imbalance -- from what I've read about it.

Certainly the "talking therapy" is finished except to dispense medicines.

But Lauretta Bender is a case that should be opened today for all the world to see what was

done--!!

And, certainly, there were many more like her -- using destructive physical and psychological

"tools" which only did harm to so many. "Doctor-induced illness" -- !!


As they say -- you can educate a fool but all you end up with is an educated fool.


Also responsible of course was the hospital and superiors -- and the rubrics of psychiatry

taught to Lauretta!! And "Professionals" who permitted her to go on in her own insane way !!





PS -- Just want to add that I heard something on the radio re ADD today -- and began wondering

how effect soy/infant formula might have had on so many children who weren't breast fed???

We do know there were occasions when the formula was missing essentials and severely damaged

children who were being fed, but not "nourished" -- and it resulted in seriously arresting

their mental and physical development!!

Even polls here show that --

How critical? I leave you to read the threads --


And the national opinion is even much higher than that!

76% and more want MEDICARE4ALL --

94% want a government run like Sweden's!

Huge backing for New Deal programs and safety nets -- !!



This is a hugely liberal nation -- though many here seem to not understand that.

Very odd --

Why in the heck do they think the RW has had to use political violence over 50 years?

Why do they think the RW has to control the national media so completely?

Why do they think the elections have been stolen using computers -- ?

Why all the fake RW organizations -- from Heritage Foundation/Koch Bros. to T-baggers/

Koch Bros.?

Why the need for Koch Bros./DLC to infiltrate the Democratic Party?

Skinner may think of "working within the system" -- and of the left ....

Democratic Underground is an online community for politically liberal people who understand the importance of working within the system to elect more Democrats and fewer Republicans to all levels of political office. Teabaggers, Neo-cons, Dittoheads, Paulites, Freepers, Birthers, and right-wingers in general are not welcome here. Neither are certain extreme-fringe left-wingers, including advocates of violent political/social change, hard-line communists, terrorist-apologists, America-haters, kooks, crackpots, LaRouchies, and the like.


I'm not sure that Skinner doesn't think OWS may be comprised of "extreme fringe left-wingers,

America haters, kooks, and the like"-- ???

how it causes people to react often against their own interests -- !!

It was only recently that a few writers of non-fiction began to point to it

and acknowledge it.

Some college courses now acknowledge and examine the "propaganda of white male history" --

but there is a long history of organized propaganda emanating from powerful groups/

elites/wealthy power structures -- and I think James Carroll's book* gives some

interesting insight into historical propaganda. I'm sure many will agree that the Nazi

Era propaganda was about as vile as we would ever expect to come across -- but only if

you aren't familiar with "The Hammer of Witches" and the organized propaganda against the

Jews which occurred much earlier than the Hitler era.



IMO, the first thing we have to understand is patriarchy -- and that it's underpinning

is organized patriarchal religion. And that capitalism is its economic invention.

All three are, of course, fascist systems which have used propaganda to retain control

over populations and power which often challenges governments.

Propaganda is a very interesting subject we need to pay more attention to -- and work

over in our minds as to how to respond to it. It seeks to create an emotional reaction

which short circuits any real thought.

One of the best responses to "partial birth abortion," imo, was "partial truth abortion."

We all need to work together dismantling and creating responses to propaganda which can at

times be quite alarming. Notice that our representatives are not going to do this for us!


There is a great deal more to be said on this subject, but we should at the least be

familiar with the fact that in the Nixon White House they studied Nazi propaganda films.



Here's an interesting story on that related by Harrison Livingstone in his "High Treason I" --

Many of Nixon's staff came to him from University of Southern CA and UCLA -- "where there

were fraternities which kept alive the vision of a new Reich."

"Some of these men would watch the great Nazi propaganda films in the basement of the

Nixon White House until all hours of the night, and drink, in fact get drunk with their power,

with blind ambition, as one of them wrote."

"One of Nixon's top assistants took a dislike to a reporter, and had him invited to a private

showing of a movie. The reporter sat down, and soon was seized by the hair from behind and

his head cruelly jerked back and cracked against the back of the seat. The man's head was held

there for some time, and then he was let go. He turned to see the Presidential assistant,

who said, 'Oh, I thought you were someone else.'"

Don't ever let anyone tell you that Watergate was nothing -- !!





*

Crusade: Chronicles of an Unjust War

http://www.jamescarroll.net/JAMESCARROLL.N...

...and have free elections. So what you mean is 'We are anti-worker.'

Things are the way they are because people in sufficient numbers either want them that way, or don't want them to be different, or don't want them to be different enough.

This government was not forced upon us by an occupying power. It would be more convenient if that were the case, but it wouldn't actually be true.



Americans are not "anti-worker" -- this is a liberal nation -- which still supports the

New Deal -- and even more radical solutions.


Americans have been abused by corporate control of our government and our press --

which denies many the information and vision which they need to understand our problems and

what is causing them and how to fix them. One example of that is the Postal Service and

the depeptive political attack on our PO Department and its workers to destroy it for the

benefit of elites/privatization.


Same is also true of our military and its privatization -- Patriot Act/Homeland Security!


In fact, our Congress has been privatized if you look at it realistically -- privatized

with corporate money buying government and candidates/incumbents.

"Congress is controlled by the oil and coal industry" -- Al Gore/Rolling Stone-June 2011


Further, we've had 50 years of RW political violence -- assassinations -- which not only

took President John F. Kennedy but our people's government!

Add to that a corporate press -- and corporate/private voting computers which are hackable

even from remote locations -- and it adds up to stolen elections not "free elections."


And the Supreme Court's Gang of 5 decision which put Bush in the White Hous eis even more

evidence of fascism in America.




PS: --

Keep in mind, also, that the voting computers aren't something new in 2000 --

they began to come in during the late 1960's. In fact, two journalists in 1969 noting the

odd and unverifiable results being reported by computers began an investigation which resulted

in their book -- "Votescam -- The Stealing of America."

Additionally, during the mid 1960's, the LARGE computers used by MSM came in giving them new

powers to PERDICT and CALL elections -- winners/losers -- Electoral College Votes, etal.

Previously they had only been permitted to report ACTUAL VOTE TALLIES.



*http://www.constitution.org/vote/votescam_...

After all, not much of anything but Democrats and supporting them can be discussed

here -- right?

And we do need the "broadest democratic discussion and debate" right now. Especially now!


And this is exactly the point ....

whether or not the Democratic Party can be reformed or taken over by true progressives

That's a very limiting way to look at things -- politics of, by, and for Democratic Party.

Think we need that "broadest" discussion of what our other options may be.


After twenty and more years of Koch Bros/DLC how do we find out what's left?

Is Obama what's left?

And what kind of an opiton is it to vote for EITHER of the two corporate parties?


OWS is timely and where we should be going -- no doubt about that!


However, the Democratic Party is now under the control of the Third Way which is even

further to the right than Koch Bros/DLC --

and soon DU will be very seriously involved in raising money for them --

Just before Obama entered the White House, DU passed along $280,000 from DU members to

the Obama which certainly also benefited the DLC and Third Way.

I think there's a lot to think about here -- including the idea of a name change.




A few weeks ago, I happened to catch Jonathan Cowan, Pres. of Third Way on C-span --

Cowan was making clear that the stance/policy of Third Way/Democratic Party is that

"the base of the party is to be ignored."

Further, that "populism, populist discussion is the equivalent of Karl Rove propaganda

of extremism."

Is that really what you want to support in any way?

Nor are Dems -- when was the last time you heard Obama or the Dems talk

about Global Warming --

This isn't going to be happening in "coming decades" -- it's happening right

now --

We're just beginning to feel the effects of Global Warming AFTER 1960 -- that's

because there was a 50 year delay in Global Warming -- other than the melting of

the glaciers which began in 1940's.

Imagine all we did AFTER 1960!


glacier melting and the changing of pressures on tectonic plates is bringing more

earthquakes and more severe earthquakes.

Chaotic weather will continue to increase, as well -- more storms and hurricanes

moving further North -- more cyclones, tornadoes -- and more compounding of all

conditions as Global Warming has the power to change systems -- winds, oceans.


"Congress is under the control of the oil and coal industries" -- Al Gore/Rolling Stone-June



Scientists have known about the negative impact that "bus-i-ness" was having on nature since

the beginning of the Industrial Revolution -- build up for WWII only accelerated it.

Capitalism exists by exploitation of everything -- nature, natural resources, animal life --

and even human labor.

Many have written about these false conclusions but even Wiki covers it --

"describes the foundation of Diamond's environmental revisionism and explains why

it does not hold up to scientific scrutiny."

: "By the time detailed observations were made in the 1880s, the old culture was virtually dead <...> It is my own suspicion that none are valid." Most of the information was "gleaned from a few surviving natives from the late nineteenth century onwards, by then decimated, demoralised and culturally impoverished population which had lost most of the collective cultural-historical memory"

The accounts and reports that cover the period between Easter's discovery in 1722 and the extermination of its culture 150 years later are fundamentally inconsistent and contradictory. When, at the start of the 20th century, the first archaeological expeditions tried to reconstruct the island's history, they stumbled upon an exhausted terrain: the indigenous population had been almost completely annihilated, its culture and natural habitat destroyed as a result of physical, cultural and environmental obliteration.

http://sacredsites.com/americas/chile/east...


This would be "discovery" by Dutch --

{b]...research into both the causes and timing of deforestation remains contentious.

Diamond's assertion that Easter's discoverers encountered an island devoid of trees is also contradicted by Carl Friedrich Behrens, Roggeveen's officer. According to Behrens' description of the island and its inhabitants, the natives presented "palm branches as peace offerings." Their houses were "set up on wooden stakes, daubed over with luting and covered with palm leaves" (Behrens, 1903:134/135; his account was originally published in 1737).

Behrens concluded his remarkably cheerful description of Easter Island and its natural environment on a high note: "This island is a suitable and convenient place at which to obtain refreshment, as all the country is under cultivation and we saw in the distance whole tracts of woodland " (Behrens, 1903:137).



and there is much more which raises doubts -- like this --

Roggeveen maintained that Easter Island was exceptionally fertile. It produced large quantities of bananas, potatoes, and sugar-cane of extraordinary thickness. He concluded that, with careful cultivation, the island's productive soil and benign climate could be turned into an 'earthly paradise'. Captain Cook, on the other hand, was less impressed. When he visited the island 50 years later amidst high expectations (in all probability as a result of reading Behrens' upbeat report), he was disappointed by what he perceived to be an impoverished island. Yet, regardless of what may have happened in the aftermath of discovery and early visits, there are compelling reports from the late 18th century that Rapa Nui was far from being in a state of terminal decline. As Rollin, a major of the French expedition to Easter Island in 1786, underlined:

"Instead of meeting with men exhausted by famine, <...> I found, on the contrary, a considerable population, with more beauty and grace than I afterwards met in any other island; and a soil, which, with very little labour, furnished excellent provisions, and in an abundance more than sufficient for the consumption of the inhabitants" (Heyerdahl & Ferdon, 1961:57).






Also, you may be interested in this post I made elsewhere on the thread re

the more likely history of the island --

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discu...

Even Wiki has trouble hiding this more likely history of the Island --

Besides its more well known name of Rapa Nui, Easter Island is also known as Te-Pito-O-Te-Henua, meaning ‘The Navel of the World’, and as Mata-Ki-Te-Rani, meaning ‘Eyes Looking at Heaven’. These ancient names, and a host of mythological details ignored by mainstream archaeologists, point to the possibility that the remote island may once have been a geodetic marker and the site of an astronomical observatory of a long forgotten civilization. Speculations about this shadowy antediluvian culture include the notion that its mariners had charted the world’s oceans, that its astronomers had sophisticated knowledge of long-term astronomical cycles such as precession and cometary orbits, and that its historians had records of previous global cataclysms and the destruction they caused of even more ancient civilizations.

In his book, Heaven’s Mirror, Hancock suggests that Easter Island may once have been a significant scientific outpost of this antediluvian civilization and that its location had extreme importance in a planet-spanning, mathematically precise grid of sacred sites. He writes,

“The very existence of such an ancient world grid has been staunchly resisted by mainstream archaeologists and historians – as, of course, have all attempts to relate known sites to it. Nevertheless, the definite traces of lost astronomical knowledge that are to be seen on Easter Island, and the recurrent echoes of ancient Egyptian spiritual and cosmological themes, cast doubt on the scholarly explanation that the odd name ‘Navel of the World’ was adopted for purely ‘poetic and descriptive’ reasons. We suspect that Te-Pito-O-Te-Henua may originally have been selected for settlement, and given its name, entirely because of its geodetic location.” “What we are suggesting therefore is that Easter Island might have originally have been settled in order to serve as a sort of geodetic beacon, or marker – fulfilling some as yet unguessed at function in an ancient global system of sky-ground co-ordinates that linked many so-called ‘world navels’”.

Two other alternative scholars, Christopher Knight and Robert Lomas, have extensively studied the location and possible function of these geodetic markers. In their fascinating book, Uriel’s Machine, they suggest that one purpose of the geodetic markers was as part of global network of sophisticated astronomical observatories dedicated to predicting and preparing for future cometary impacts and crustal displacement cataclysms. The great floods of archaic myths did not result from the melting of the ice caps between 13,000 and 8000 BC (an event which may not have actually occurred) but rather from two great cataclysms that were caused by cosmic and cometary objects affecting the entire planet. These cataclysms were 1) the pass-by of a cosmic object and an ensuing planet-wide crustal displacement in 9600 BC, and 2) the seven cometary impacts of 7640 BC which resulted in the massive waves (3-5 miles high, traveling at over 400 miles per hour for distances of more than 2000 miles), volcanic activity and other terrestrial and climatological events recorded in myths all across the planet. Prior to these cataclysmic events however, in what is commonly called the late Paleolithic era, a maritime civilization may have existed with cities situated along coastlines that are now submerged beneath the seas.


Easter Island may have been the higest peak of a much larger island --

"EYES LOOKING AT HEAVEN" -- !!







http://sacredsites.com/americas/chile/east...

The only way the RW can rise is by political violence and we've had more

than 50 years of that out in the open --

History has more often than not been changed in favor of the violent few by

violence and deception. From Hitler to the rise of the right in America,

history is repeating itself now all over the world.


Re RW violence -- assassinations -- stolen elections -- and now Global Warming

the biggest sadness is that we have had trust in a Democratic Party which no

longer exists after being weeded out of those who would take action. CIA saw

to it that Frank Church was quickly targeted and removed.


Fake GOP organizations -- from their radicalized NRA to their "pro-life" murderers

have targeted many other liberals.

And how much fear the GOP fake Christian movement has generated -- though it is

completely financed by the RW. GOP gave start up funding for the Christian Coalition,

Richard Scaife funded Dobson's organization -- and other wealthy RW'ers financed

Bauer's organization. Religion has long been a tool of Elites -- as they have inflicted

religion on native peoples everywhere as a first step in taking over their naitons and

natural resources - their land.

And now the faked T-baggers -- funded by Koch Bros!



What was left of the Democratic Party was taken over by Koch Bros. DLC who influenced

not only the party agenda but the candidates. The Dem Party is now under control of

The Third Way!


And yet the cry goes on -- "Vote for the lesser evil" -- "Vote for the lesser evil" --

though that has never done anything but more the party and Congress further to the right!

If we truly want change we understand that this is a senseless cry for just more of the

same -- more movement to the right.

If anyone wants to purchase a star for anyone now for a year it will cost

$42 -

Now I'm repeating that for you cause you sound like you don't understand the change.


Again -- it's an increase from $5 to $42 --

The average yearly contribution according to Skinner was $10-$15 --

The average yearly contribution now being requested is $42 --


Again -- this isn't progress -- it's GREED.

And, quite startling at a time when we have OWS going -- and so many stories of posters

who are living in actual poverty -- and so many suffering illnesses -- and being shccked

with unaffordable health care costs!


Again -- a political website is dependent upon its posters -- its numbers.

Political times change -- and this very insensitive move by Skinner suggests that

he's out of touch with what OWS is truly about and the times we are in.

Basically, OWS is signaling the end of BOTH parties.

And Obama has pretty much brought that upon himself and the party with his corporate/

Wall Street agenda.

Obama is pro-Wall Street -- OWS is anti-Wall Street -- figure it out.

Here's a taste of what you're gonna get on DU3:

- Every DU member will be empowered to participate in how the site is run (if they so desire).

- No more all-powerful elite moderators.

- No more deleted posts.

- Total transparency.

- Separation of powers.

- The people who are empowered to take action are also responsible for their actions.

- Members have power to run the groups you participate in, however you see fit. Block out whomever you like. Lock any thread you like. You enforce your own group's mission, not me.

- The emphasis is on stopping disruption, rather than enforcing a long list of arbitrary rules.

and support children --

We also need to pay a great deal more attention to the harm done to children by pedophilia,

especially when it involves a family member!

Can't be denied that one of the counter-attacks by those who want to ignore the epidemic of

pedophilia is certainly to belittle the harm done to children!

Sad to hear this happened to you -- and thank you for telling us --

Everyone who witnesses anything like this has to understand you don't report it to the Vatican

or the Bishop -- or to the University or a Coach -- you report it to the police!



Even the RCC/Vatican scandals don't properly reflect the immense nature of these

international crimes -- only a small part of it because of the underreporting by victims.


How has this gone on so long -- ?

According to a JAMA study, "90% of pedophiles are male" -- and "95% of them are hetereosexual."

And 68% of pedophile abuse is visited upon family members --

HOWEVER, the numbers should be even higher because they fail to include step-children,

adopted children and/or foster children!


Inequality in our society means that males remain in control -- and as we saw from the Penn

State events they're not likely to think that a 10 year old boy is as important as their

university and their coaches or their ability to attract new students.

In other words, we have too many adult males protecting pedophiles -- whether in the Vatican,

the RCC in US and around the world -- or at universities.


We also lost a great opportunity to make societies aware of pedophilia when FREUD betrayed

the many women and young females who were telling him of being sexually molested by

male relatives. Some males, as well.

Bowing to patriarchy, however, FREUD REVERSED HIS EDIPUS COMPLEX, BLAMING CHILDREN FOR THEIR

OWN VICTIMIZATION.

Wow --

Democratic Party is now under control of Third Way -- after 20 years and more of

infiltration and influence over the party by Koch Bros. DLC -- !!

Who knows what's left of the party now --

But here's what Jonathan Cowan, Pres. of Third Way has to say about the future of

the Democratic Party . . .


C-span -- about three weeks ago -- Washington Journal --

Cowan makes clear the stance/policy of Third Way is that "the base of the party is

to be ignored" ---

and further that, "populism and populist discussions/debages are the equivalent of

Karl Rove propaganda of extremism" -- !!


Hear that -- the New Deal is Karl Rove extremism!!



Funny -- if it wasn't so sad -- !!