in front of a camera.

That's as simple as I can put it, and believe it or not, I think that MOST "porn" (I put it in quotes, again, because a solid definition of what is 'porn' seems elusive in the first place) is 2 people having sex in various ways. I think "sex positive" is sort of a nonsense term, it is sex that is designed (in most cases) to be arousing to someone, so it is -at least in some cases- intended to be sex enhancing. It's hard for me to imagine how porn could be 'sex negative' because it would kind of defeat the purpose of it being 'porn'.

Part of MY objection to these discussions is the monolithic, almost 2 dimensional way they treat wide-scale, amorphous phenomena, as well as even more nebulous, ill-defined concepts such as "the general conception of women". Even if it could be argued that ONE particular porno had an effect on one particular viewer's idea or ideas about one woman or several women or even women-as-the-entire-category-of-women-who-have-ever-existed, you're still arguing, essentially, about ill-defined categories and terms enclosed in (trying to be friendly, here) at best nebulosity and spurious semi-assertion.

Now as far as what is NOT 'degrading' -- another problem is that what YOU consider degrading might not be what someone else considers degrading. Is 2 people having sex degrading? You may say, 'of course not', but let's cut to the total, honest chase here.. when we've had these threads in the past, once the Dworkin (there's that name, again!) quotes start flying, it becomes perfectly apparent that some people DO consider heterosexual, penetrative sex, at least in front of a camera if not everywhere, to be INHERENTLY 'degrading to women'. Others consider ANY picture of a naked woman that might appear to be presented in such a way that a heterosexual male might find it arousing, again, is INHERENTLY 'degrading to women'. I'm not saying that's your POV, but it is certainly one that has been argued enough times to warrant a rebuttal, or at least a question as to whether that is the default position re: what is considered 'degrading to women' in regards to, again, 'porn'.

I do NOT think 2 people having consensual, hetero, penetrative sex is inherently 'degrading to women' (I also question the whole concept, as I alluded to above, and will expand on below) nor do I think that the vast majority of sex acts that 2 people would have in most porn would be degrading to either person. I would ask, is oral sex degrading? When performed by either partner? Is anal sex degrading? I mean, there are a long list of combinations and acts and positions that could or could not be 'degrading', I'm wondering where the line is, if it's specific to what people do or something else...

Now, I spent a good amount of time working for an indie, non-corporate chain of video stores, back in the day. I was pretty familiar with the smut that was around back then. I would categorize SOME percentage of porn as, yes, misogynist, to be distinguished from 'degrading to (all) women'. I absolutely think there's a place for SPECIFIC criticism of certain SPECIFIC pieces of art or entertainment, but if you notice the hullaballoo around this thread, what you see is not an indictment of, say, the one particular Dolce & Gabbana ad that is being used, over & over again, as THE EXAMPLE of PROMOTION OF RAPE IN ADVERTISING. Rather than criticizing this one fucked up ad, it becomes ALL ads and "the ad industry" and "the media" which is manipulating and brainwashing "the culture".

What was my, personal, criteria for finding SOME -maybe 3-5% of the total- porn misogynist? (which, again, should be distinguished from 'degrading to (all) women' which is a power I don't think any specific movie or image has) It wasn't any specific act, more like the attitude. I never felt it should be censored, but I and other people working in the stores told management not to order more of it.

That said, there IS porn out there where men are insulted, spat upon, tied up, etc. by women. And some men really like that stuff. Human sexuality is complex, and yes those disclaimers about how things are role play are important. People who like to be tied up and people who like to tie those people up are engaging in consensual behavior, and that's their business and it's really not the place of others to judge it.

I think it's a vast oversimplification; both of the vast menu of entertainment options available to people as WELL as how our brains work- to suggest that one set of images is somehow programming people and beyond that capable of somehow 'interfering with the struggle for gender equality.' In the 1950s, you couldn't see married couples sleeping in the same bed on tv, and gender equality was a fucking disaster. In the decades hence, we've progressed quite a ways, and we've somehow managed to do that at the same time as we've come to a place where consenting adults can CHOOSE to see other consenting adults having sex on their tvs or the internet. I don't think the increased sexual freedom and choice have negatively impacted the struggle for gender equality; I think greater freedom and greater choice- even if it means some people are making choices you or I wouldn't make- have HELPED the struggle for all of us to be more free and have more options.