of Christianity a "social problem", that is like saying that the 300 year war also known as the Inquisition where untold thousands of women were tortured and burn alive as a "social problem". I do not see this as a social problem. Nor do I see it as part of the conflict between the Muslims and Christians in Nigeria. You may need to look at it as a "social problem" if that is what you need to do. Just because it is ugly and it is going on now, does not make it less horrible. You may bury your head in the sand if that is how you make it through your day. I apologize for not realizing which post that you were replying to. I have no problem understanding or comprehending the English language. So there is no need to use small words.

persecuted, unless all of those folks stand up and defend these children, then they forfeit any claim they have to being persecuted in my book. Those who attend any Church which professes to be Christian, they need to bring this story to their ministers and their church leaders. This needs to be talked about, it needs to be discussed and the people who to profess to be Christian need to stand up to those who claim to be Christian and do Something to protect these children who are being tortured and killed in the name of Christianity. Many of the main stream Christian Churches support missionary work in Africa. There needs pressure brought on the government in Nigeria, and through the missionaries in the field to put a stop to these practices.

This is a stain on every person who professes to be a Christian. How you deal with this speaks to your beliefs and your character. Remember the WW JD bumper stickers. It is time to ask yourself What would Jesus do to those who commit these crimes against children, and to those who stand aside and allow them to commit those crimes and do nothing to stop them?

I will stop my rant for now. Think on these things.

MSNBC has picked up the story now. I hope it gets lots of coverage.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33356826/ns/wo... //

African churches denounce children as ‘witches’
Pastors accuse thousands of children, leading to torture or death

The following is a quote from one of the children:

"Please stop the pastors who hurt us," said Jerry quietly, touching the scars on his face. "I believe in God and God knows I am not a witch."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/10/17/...

(AP) The nine-year-old boy lay on a bloodstained hospital sheet crawling with ants, staring blindly at the wall.

His family pastor had accused him of being a witch, and his father then tried to force acid down his throat as an exorcism. It spilled as he struggled, burning away his face and eyes. The emaciated boy barely had strength left to whisper the name of the church that had denounced him - Mount Zion Lighthouse.

A month later, he died.

Nwanaokwo Edet was one of an increasing number of children in Africa accused of witchcraft by pastors and then tortured or killed, often by family members. Pastors were involved in half of 200 cases of "witch children" reviewed by the AP, and 13 churches were named in the case files.

Some of the churches involved are renegade local branches of international franchises. Their parishioners take literally the Biblical exhortation, "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live."


Some wonder if this type of behavior will occur here if the fundies have their way. You know the ones who take literally the Bible. This is the danger when conservative fundamentalist run amok.
There is a Dark Side to the entire history of Christianity.

How does it ever get stopped? Who can bring these persons into reality? Who is going to protect the children?

The wisdom of that time said if she were a Witch, the water, medium of Christian Baptism would reject her and she would float. Did not matter in most cases it was the old if you were accused, you were guilty. The results were the same. You were either drown, or killed. In the US, I believe the Witches were mostly hanged. In Europe they were burned alive, unless they were male Witches, then they were strangled then burned, they property confiscated and added to the holdings of the "Church." There were cases where they were already dead and buried and they were still accused, tried found guilty, their bones dug up and burned, and the property of their descendent's taken by the "Church" This was a 500 year reign of terror, another one of those "bright" spots on the History of the Christian Church.

BTW: Satan is a part of Christianity...the Pagans have no such member of their Divinity.

if the rules were changed so that if a member of Congress accepted funds from a company and then there was legislation introduced that affected the industry that that company was engaged in, that the member of congress had to recuse him/herself from any vote on that legislation. And if say both of the Senators had taken funds from that company or a lobbiest representing that industry that neither of them could vote. Of course then they would have to explain to the voters that had elected them and sent them to Washington DC why their state had no voice in the Senate on that legislation and how the payments from these lobbiest was more important that the job they were sent to do.

Hmmmm...you know there was a name we used to call people who sold them selves to the highest bidder....is the Senate and House populated by High Priced Hookers?

Rank-and-File Members:
The current salary (2009) for rank-and-file members of the House and Senate is $174,000 per year.

Congress: Leadership Members' Salary (2009)
Leaders of the House and Senate are paid a higher salary than rank-and-file members.

Senate Leadership
Majority Party Leader - $193,400
Minority Party Leader - $193,400

House Leadership
Speaker of the House - $223,500
Majority Leader - $193,400
Minority Leader - $193,400

A cost-of-living-adjustment (COLA) increase takes effect annually unless Congress votes to not accept it


http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/uscongress/a...

sure the Vatican has plenty of copies of those, find some people who can read and understand the languages that they are written in. Mostly Greek I think. After getting all that together then do are corrected translation from the original. If they take one of the already existing translations, they are just translating a translation, with all of the mistakes and inaccuracies that those translations have.

Also the Dead Sea Scrolls that have been found since need to be considered also.

That should keep them busy for a few years. Since I think that they may have a bit of trouble finding the people with the skills necessary to do a new translations. Have to take what those words meant then and what they mean now. I am not convinced that these fundies have the persons who are qualified to do this type of work. If they do, it is not going to be an easy or quick job.

Nor is it going to be a cheap job.

So all of those persons out there who are so adamant about not making birth control or condom use widely available. Those who think that the use of any birth control is equal in their eyes to abortion. This is where your opinion and your religious convictions are leading us. to world wide hunger, a destruction of the environment. Then where do you plan to live. Oh yes, silly me, I forgot the rapture is coming and so this world wide problem will be left to the unbelievers to handle.

rant over.

I am thinking of maybe starting a campaign to go somewhere with this. I would appreciate you input on it. It goes like this.

It would apply to every member of the House and the Senate.

If they have received any money from any special interest group that is involved with legislation working its way through the house and Senate. That member of the House or Senate could not vote on it. They would have to recuse themselves from voting on any legislature if they have received any money from a special interest group that the piece of legislation would effect.

Now if both the Senators for any state had both received money in reference to that bill. Then their State would have no voice on that bill and the Senators would have to explain to those who sent them to DC to represent them, why the money given to them was more important to them than doing the job they had been sent to DC to do.

Would that put "the fear of God" or maybe the fear of their constituents' in them?

(Constituents: a person who authorizes another to act in his or her behalf, as a voter in a district represented by an elected official)

Someone needs to jerk these jerks into the present time. Obama is the Elected President of these United States. The election was not voided or stolen. The Majority of the voters in the USA Elected him to lead this countty. Maybe these bright children need to check out





TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 115 > § 2385Prev | Next § 2385. Advocating overthrow of Government

They see to be treading very close to crossing the line on these attacks. They are getting very close to going from free speach to committing Treason or Sedition.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_s...

Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or
Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so; or
Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof—
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.
If two or more persons conspire to commit any offense named in this section, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.
As used in this section, the terms “organizes” and “organize”, with respect to any society, group, or assembly of persons, include the recruiting of new members, the forming of new units, and the regrouping or expansion of existing clubs, classes, and other units of such society, group, or assembly of persons.

Was shredding the Constitution and Bill of Rights during their eight year rein in Washington DC, running up that almost $8 Trillion Dollars in Debt to depose the ruler of Iraq and to ignore the terrorist threat in Afghanistan? Where were these guys when Bushco rammed Thur the TARP bail out with no accountability for the Banks and Wall Street? Why are they so blessed concerned now? Where were these guys when Bushco stated for the whole world to hear that the Geneva Convention was irrelevant and withdrew from it leaving our men and women in uniform at risk? Where was the concern then? Why now? What makes this time different? Is this more of the right wing fear and misinformation plan to take over this country, suspend the constitution and set up a Christian Taliban Government? I would really like an answer to any of these questions.

 
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_s...

This is the current law.

TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 115 > § 2385Prev | Next § 2385. Advocating overthrow of Government
How Current is This? Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or
Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so; or
Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof—
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.
If two or more persons conspire to commit any offense named in this section, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.
As used in this section, the terms “organizes” and “organize”, with respect to any society, group, or assembly of persons, include the recruiting of new members, the forming of new units, and the regrouping or expansion of existing clubs, classes, and other units of such society, group, or assembly of persons.

"Morality is the sum of the choices a person makes, it comes out of a personal set of values, that is, one's way of living inside a worldview and the ethical framwork it implies. Where one's ethics will give a person and idea about what the ideal type of "good" might ge, given his/her worldview, the concrete decisions a person makes about good and bad, appropriate and inappropriate, right and wrong, define his/her moral outlook." Taken from "An Ye Harm None: Magical Morality and Modern Ethics" by Shelley TSivia Rabinovitch and Meredith Macdonald.
What are Ethics? from the same book.
"Ethicx are about one's worldview. They arise out of how one understands the relationships between human beings, the natural world, and one's notion of the divine, however conceived. Ethics come out of a person's worldview because how one sees the world always informs his/her ieeas about 'right' and 'good.' Values are the abstract statements about goodness, beauty, and relative worth that underlie the judgments one makes about how one wishes to live."

right to control women.
"In most primitive societies it was unthinkable that male sexual desires should take precedence over the needs of mothers and their children. Patriarchy everywhere sought to change this, through religious sanction. Women were to serve men's sexual urges even when preoccupied with motherhood. This was the meaning of God's announcement to Eve: 'I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception, in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be subject to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee' (Genesis 3:16). In this context, "sorrrow" meant labor pangs, as well as the harried life of a mother with children too close together, and the illnesses and injuries caused by spreading a mother's care too thin.
The Judeo-Christian culture insisted on men's control of women's bodies. Wives were not to imitate sexual relations, but they were never to deny their husbands. The Catholic church laid down the law that no wife could accuse her husband of rape even if he forced her with accompanying brutality. Sexual "release" was his conjugal right ( but not hers).
The church interpreted the fable of Genesis as God's mandate to compel women to bear as many children as possible, even at the cost of the children's or the mother's health and welfare. Men refused to deal with the problem of over-production and women were forbidden to do so, by the church's tradition. In pagan times, women used some fairly effective birth-control devices, ranging from vaginal sponges to abortifacient drugs. Many churchmen believed the witches inherited secret knowledge of such things, which contributed to the vigor or witch- and midwife-persecutions." this was taken from the book by Barbara G. Walker "The Woman's Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets"
pages 13-104. Along with this Birth-control was considered as nothing else than mutual masturbation. The church did not view sex as masturbation when it was for a husband's benefit as long as it was not mutually satisfying. In the 17th century the church said that the only purpose of marital sex must be conception and that if the woman receives too much pleasure she cannot conceive.

refuse to support them with their donations and labor, the sects will continue down a path that would be as terrible or maybe even worse than it was to begin with. Wake up and smell the coffee. The moderate Christians can no more rein in the fundies than the moderate Muslims can rein in their fundies. The fundies of both sects/religions do not recognize the moderates as having the authority to rein them in. It begins with the courage to question the teaching of their church. It continues with education and asking those questions that have been forbidden to be asked. Go to your favorite book store. Not the one your church runs. Books I would suggest would begin with "The Dark Side of Christian History" by Helen Ellerby and with " When God was a Woman." by Merlin Stone. Inform yourself how having a State Religion in other counties has led to the loss of Human rights, loss of freedom, intolerance of any other religion, and how the government has been used as a tool of the state religion to control the people, to inflict their morals on the people, and punish those who do not go along. It is not just to control the morals and lives but to also control their spirituality. To control how they see God, how they interact with each other and how they find their spiritual path. The founders of our country had experienced this first hand in Europe. That is why there is a seperation or Church and State. Most people are brought up not to question our religion as it is presented to us. That is the way and the truth and the light. any deviation from that path leads to Satan and eternity in Hell. We are brought up not to question or think on such things. Skills like critical thinking and analysis, that we use as adults are not allowed to be turned on religion. Think on that for a while. Ask those questions.

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/losing-my...

Losing my religion for equality JIMMY CARTER
July 15, 2009

Illustration: Dyson
Women and girls have been discriminated against for too long in a twisted interpretation of the word of God.


If the Christians want their religion back they are going to have to take it back.