MR. GREGORY: But you're confident about getting that bill with a public plan this year.

MR. AXELROD: I'm confident that we're going to get a healthcare reform bill. I think a public choice will be part of it. I think the public wants to have that option and wants to see that kind of competition, and I think we will, we will have that.

MR. GREGORY: Well, let's be clear what we're talking about as well. You're talking about a public sponsored, a government sponsored healthcare plan that can exist side by side with private insurance plans, and that allows Americans without insurance to make a choice between a private and a public plan.

It's interesting. In the press conference this week, the president said any opposition to that is illogical. But at the same time, he won't draw a line in the sand, nor will you in your previous answer. And yet supporters of that public plan, including Howard Dean, doctor, former governor, former head of the Democratic Party, said it's got to be in there. This is what he said as reported by The Hill newspaper on Friday: "We are here;" he said at a rally, "we're not going away. We voted for change a few months ago. We expect change. And if we don't get it, there's going to be more change." That's what Howard Dean said. "`Success on healthcare reform is a must for Democrats,' Dean told The Hill. `I think it's going to be a catastrophic problem for the Democratic Party if they can't get this bill out.'" And what he means is with a public plan.

MR. AXELROD: Well, first of all, I think that if we don't pass healthcare reform it's going to be a catastrophic problem for the country, not just the Democratic Party; for families, businesses and the country itself. Look, we believe strongly in, in a public choice; not one that's subsidized by the government, but one that will embrace the best practices, that will reduce healthcare costs and give people the best quality care. What the president said was illogical were the same people who say that the government is incompetent, the government can't run anything, the government shouldn't be involved in, in anything say, but we can't let that be one of the choices because it'll be an unfair advantage against the, against the insurance companies.

MR. AXELROD: Look, we have gotten a long way down the road by not drawing bright lines in the sand, other than on the major points, which is that we can't add to the deficit with this healthcare reform, so it has to be paid fore, it has to reduce costs, and we want to make sure that all Americans have a quality, affordable health care. Those are the, those are the things that have to be accomplished. People have different ideas. We're willing to listen to those ideas. But that's where we're--that--those are the imperatives that we have to sell.

One of the important things we had to do in 1992 was remove the obstacles that kept people from voting Democratic in the first place," he said.