the Primary is OVER... and right now emotions are way, and I mean this from the bottom of my heart, WAAAAYYYYYY too wound up

So we have people posting the horrible HRC posts and how she is not welcome et al

Hell, there are rumors that she's been given the cold shoulder on the Hill and we know SHE WAS given the cold shoulder on the Hill by many members of the House.

Yep, that is reality

What is also reality is... that she may have a couple hard years in the Senate if she chooses to stay in the Senate... but


Lets look at history shall we? In fact, 1980 to be specific. That was an ugly campaign and Senator Kennedy became "dead to me" for many folks, in the Hill even

Care to tell me where he is these days? Just one of the most powerful men in the US Senate and an elder statesman in the party

Just remember this...

And I am not looking at a crystal ball (but history is good for this)... depending on how much heels are dug in... and how long it takes for her to exist stage left... just how bad this pariah status will be..

That said, almost all is forgiven, if not forgotten, in Politics.


Ah the ability to see this from the standpoint of NOT being my first rodeo, or not getting psychologically involved with ANY candidate.

Mac admitted tonight on MSNBC that under the best of cases they can only get within 100 delegates of Obama

he did that on the air... and that is a little important (as in huge)

It might be a signal that the end is coming for those of us who are attuned to them whistles

That said, for all of you going nuts over Macauliffe "irrational" ranting on the teeveee.... he is doing his damn job...

And doing it well... even if I find it comical... but I find campaign managers comical regardless of who is the candidate... since we expect to see them exaggerate. It is their job.

For those of you for whom this is YOUR first rodeo... NO campaign will give up and let you know about this, until well, they give up and tell you this. This is basic in politics... I mean if she came today and told you that. how many donations do you expect to see? Damn I am cynical... or just been around long enough to know how this works.

So I do expect the Campaign to tell us yes they can win until the last possible second. THAT IS JUST THE WAY IT IS... is this clear enough now? And until they do, the last of the Clinton Supporters here will accept what has occurred.

And if any of you is having a problem with this... turn the teeevee off, and take a long walk AWAY from DU or any other political blog

Oh and for team hillary, congrats on an expected win. Remember, until this reaches 75%, this is called a pyrrhic victory. And so far we are at 66-27 with 69% reporting... I somehow doubt we will see 75%

Edit for clarity

Over the last seven years I've sent a husband to war TWICE

We have seen our income go DOWN and Inflation go to levels where my relaxing coffee at a LOCAL coffee shop is such a luxury I stay home these days.

He almost got stop lossed... (There is a story in that one)

We had a hell of a time getting foreign aid into the US over Katrina... thanks Bush NOT (why our criticism of Myamnar makes me laugh in a kind of tragic way) And yes, I could go into why and how, suffice it to say games got interesting... Hey, I get to sleep at night.

I've got two military age nieices, and if (or rather when) we go to war with Iran... they might finally see reality and enact a draft.

I've got two younger nephews that deserve to grow up in a free country... free clue morans, this is not a free country anymore... and we will have to claw our way back to that and reclaim the bill of rights amongst other things

I'd like to drive on a freeway bridge that I know will not fall down... right now our infrastructure is in such bad shape that it just might

Then there is the VA system... though we don't use it right now, my husband might need it some day... and as a vet he earned that right... not if McCain gets to play Presnit.

Oh and there is this little thing about two, possibly three USSC judges retiring or dying while in office in the next term... you sure you want McCain to appoint them? If you vote for McCain and he wins... I can guarantee you more than just a little damage to whatever freedoms we still have.

Then there is this little fact about forty plus million of my fellow citizens who cannot afford to get the sniffles, let alone a major illness, and some have them pesky pre-existing... nough said.

This is why you too should vote for the NOMINEE in November

He is not perfect... no candidate ever is... but he is FAR BETTER than the alternative.

Oh and for those who are stomping feet and behaving like a three year old... fine... take some time to stomp feet... I know that MOST of you will quietly go into the booth in November and DO THE RIGHT THING. I also know a few of you will not.... and that is fine with me. I also KNOW that you are a very loud but small minority... MOST of your fellow fans are rational people and in the end will do what the rest of us have done as our primary candidates have left the field... and this is not directed at them, just the small, but extremely loud minority amongst you... and you know exactly who you are.

But I will leave you with this thought.... even a less than ideal democratic candidate and boy could I find defects in both Obama and Hillary Clinton, is far better than any Liberal Republican any day of the week and twice on sunday.

Enough of this tanter tantrum... fit for my three year old nephew or my cockatiel (and boy does he ever throw them!)

It is time to grow the fuck up... and if you need to take some time away from DU or politics, by all means. do so.

One more thing... this is a generational realignment and having had THAT MANY minorities on the stage this year tells me that a woman may very well be next... at least one of the two national parties looks more like the rest of america in what it ran this year. That is historic. This is a historic campaign... and historians, yes we silly people, will be studying this campaign in coming generations, for the same reason 1960 is studied, as well as 1980. It is to that level.

So yes, this is personal... and if you choose to vote for McCain when all is said and done... well here is a well deserved FUCK YOU and yes at this point you over extended your welcome.

Oh and if you decide to stay home... fine by me... but I don't want to hear it... ok

1.- Vote for the presumptive candidate in November... PERIOD.. no questions asked. I don't have to give you reasons, even if I have given them to you already. Chiefly the USSC...

2.- Cross party lines and vote for McCain... I believe he will loose too since the country is truly fed up... and gingritch actually put it best, a disaster is a-waiting the GOP in November (and the House Members were told they were on their own)

3.- Write in your preferred candidate... which in-effect is number two

4.- Vote for a third party candidate... I will respect you for doing that... ok... after all I do believe we do need to change the system to allow third parties to play far more of a role.... and given the attitude vis a vis impeachment of my dem congress critter we will be doing exactly that in this house hold... we also know this is more of a protest vote and we hope she gets the message. And that message is... the US Constitution matters

5.- Stay home... seat this election out... not the first time or the last time that people do that. No harm no foul, and your decision truly.

These are truly your choices. And you can only reach whatever is your decision after you have some time to cool down and realize that yes, there is now a candidate... and it wasn't yours. Been there, done that this election... and I do understand how you feel... and I did not like either of the two last candidates

BUT... we never have perfect candidates. That is life.

So those are YOUR choices

For the record I am registered as an Indie (yes a signal to the state party after several votes in the house and the senate, my breaking point was... the credit tax give away)

I don't like either of these two centrists.. but I would be voting for Clinton in November... yellow dog and perhaps he'll turn into more of a progressive than his current voting record suggests he is (and the same goes for her) But HE IS the presumptive... the math is very clear and it is indeed over... thankfully over...

So it is time to act like an adult and if you are truly a democrat (ironic coming from an indie), you will do that

Oh and truth be told, the pain and hurt is such, that I cannot expect every one of you to overcome it. I just hope enough of you join the rest of us voting to elect Barack Obama President of the United States... four more years of Bush and this country will be done for. Yes, those are the stakes

That is all

we had a Hispanic Candidate sharing the stage with a catholic, a black man and a woman... it was not just the usual suspects

It was not just while protestant males

That folks is what is so historic about this campaign, and why historians will study this campaign for decades to come

And for all intents and purposes, by any objective math, this is over and it is time to focus our energies on McCain

Whistles are sounding that it is indeed tiime (Feinstein, McGovern, Clark and Shumer, to mention names) and the campaign, yes even the campaign, is starting to tip the toes into the lets ease our followers into this new reality.

It is time for one of our four historic candidades to bow off the stage gracefully and leave stage left. It is time for her to join the other two in that stage of history.

And most imoiortantly it is time to be gracious about this and unify behind the presumptive nominee

Is this nominee perfect? No... nobody is, and if you are looking for perfection I will have to introduce you to this fallible animal called man.

What is at stake? Chiefly the United States Supreme Court

And realize this is still a hstoric campaign... since a black man has a very good chance (historic I might add) of becoming the next president of the United States

One more thing... for those who pay attention to these details, this is the first time since 1960 that a seating US Senator will be sworn in as the next President of the United States. Chew on that.

Now I do understand some of you will need time to grieve... and a few of you will never be reached, that is obvious... I just hope that MOST of you will do the right thing and vote for the democratic candidate in November. This is not my favorite either... and will hold my nose when I vote for him... but my lord, the alternative is too damn scary.

that is all folks...

The country will NOT survive four more years of this insanity and that is what you will get with McInsane.

when we have BOTH Republicans and Democrats basically approving shutting people up because they said something that they don't like IN A SEMI PRIVATE SETTING it is over folks

I am highly distressed and disgusted, not to mention slightly scared.

It is coming to the time when we definitely will need to choose to shut up and live, or flee and speak as expats... yes Naomi Wolf is right.. the time is coming SOON.

The creeping fascism is accelerating, aided by short sighted partisans.

To think that at one time I believed that bunk that supposedly was this country

No.. it is not that

The only rule in this country that works is the golden rule

Aka those who have the gold, make the rules

Some may see this as an attack on the US... on what exist rights now absolutely.. after all the ideals died a while ago

We only pay them lip service, yes even here. After all the end justifies the means.

So who will be the last one to turn off the lights of what was once a great experiment?

Stick a fork, its done...

I have to say, after listening to the Station Manager in San Fran.. I'd say that both you and Mrs Rhodes crossed a line

She was doing this as a commedy act, and if there was no phone recording the whole thing nobody would have known about it. Should she have called both women what she called them? Perhaps not... but the suspension either shows pressure or the willingness for a circular firing squad. Moreover, what many of us believed was an aberration over the Malloy situation, is now becoming a pattern. If you wish for liberal radio to survive, you have to start thinking how much this will cost you.

As Is these days I either podcast the shows or stream them, given that the local station went away. I'm starting to wonder how much of that going away was local management and how much was bad management from new york. What is true, is that she is bound by contractual obligations, she was not on the air, and lord knows we call many names to politicians. So are we going to have to fear saying things? Or more precisely will AAR exact ideological purity from its hosts and guests? IF it is the latter, when we have finally crossed, clearly, that door to fascism.

Congratulations.

PS Given that management is pro Clinton, assuming she won, are we to have four more years of the same were we fear the government? For the record I don't support either candidate, but will vote yellow dog nevertheless, while holding my nose with clothespin engraved with all major media concerns. I guess I will have to add AAR to the list.

world wide recession.

I know that by the strict definition we are not there yet... but trust me folks, we are there.

The canaries in the mine have been chirping STRONGLY for the last six months at least and if you go to any retailer these days you will see the signs, clearly.

So the next question is...

Well, is the Pope Catholic?

But, now that we have the big honchos ACTUALLY mentioning the R word in statements, it means things are probably worst than MOST suspect

By the way, we Casandras are far from surprised since we have been singing this song for a while and we just hope to be wrong on how deep this will be

I don't care who started it. So save it for somebody who gives a shit about the behavior of a group of six year olds.

BUT MOM JIMMY STARTED IT

MOM SUZIE STARTED IT!

I DON'T CARE WHO STARTED IT, JUST STOP IT!!!!!!!

What both sides are risking is nothing short of the election with a brokered convention.

The country CANNOT afford four more years of Bush (McCian, big dif).

STOP for a second and consider this, President McCain and at least one more war front and the USSC. See what I mean?

So if you BOTH want to help McCain, continue as you have so far.

Oh and I don't expect you to stop. After all there is no leadership stepping to the plate either.

That is all

(And don't try to blame Nader either ok, won't wash with me)

least off, the power of the right wing noise machine. It is incredible how many folks around these parts still discount Rush and his army of Ditto heads. If Rush had only one thousand listeners, locally, ok you'd have a point Then again, it would be Rush who? But Rush has at last count about 20 million listeners nation wide. Granted, that is a small sliver of the total population, at 300 million. But Rush is the TIP of a propaganda and noise machine.

I am amazed at how many people on this site still discount them, even when it is clear that the propaganda has worked.

Do tell me, apart of Denis Kucinich (who thankfully won his primary) how many of your candidates self identify as LIBERAL?

I hate to tell you this folks, but not since Dukakis do our CANDIDATES dare to use the moniker... and being a member of the ACLU is used against you. And Liberal is now a four letter word. But continue to discount Rush.

Rush is a modern day Father Coughlin. The difference between Father Coughlin and Rush is that Rush has a whole apparatus behind him. Father Coughlin (Who was also a fascist) didn't. Think of Rush (and the rest of the noise machine) as propaganda, and why history teaches you that YOU CANNOT afford to dismiss it.

Yet, even today at this late hour, many people say, who cares what that fatso (he's no longer overweight) has to say. Well, you should. And I guess not a single lesson of the last seven years about language and how to use is (Lakoff) has sunk in. Nor has it sunk in that Rush matters, and not in a nice way, but he does. And this is another reason why I don't expect anything to change. While they go to war, we play patty hand and have yet to learn the lessons of the last seven years, let alone the last twenty five.

one of the reason why folks do not seem too alarmed by the media playing king maker is because of the narrow political discourse accepted in this country. This is why somebody like Dennis Kucinich is painted as a radical... never mind he is truly center left (when you look at a table of political discourse). In fact, a real socialist, or communist would not be able to run in this country. Why? Never mind most Americans don't know the difference (and yes there are differences between a classic marxist, a neo-marxists, a Socialist, a green socialist and a Communist... I think I covered all of them) they would simply be run out of town on a red scare.

Regardless, Progressives in the US are only allowed to be slightly left of center, to be able to participate in the political discourse, and even that is with limits. There are reasons for this, and the corporate structure who CONTROLS the access to the means of communication, will close those airwaves to anybody who is critical of them... hence why they weeded out populists, consitionalists and foreign policy experts, leaving a narrow band of candidates that ARE pro corporate and neo liberal in nature, best case, plain out fascist worst case.

But until Americans learn more about political systems and do not allow the media to plain out scare them from liberals (I will remind you them founding fathers were not only liberals but radicals by the standard of the age), nothing will change. People will continue to happily play along in the narrow political sand box determined by those who benefit from empire and corporate rule. Oh and yes, it does have a definition, given by one of the masters of the art... fascism... and it is as right wing as you can get without falling off the table.

By the way, when does American Idol (or one of the multiple clones) start? We cannot forget the role of bread and circuses in this, first described by Cicero, two thousand years ago.

you know I have been truly thinking about it.

The press has done its job. We only have center right candidates running... no matter how you slice it

There is more... McCain -Clinton is the contest the media has wanted for over two years, and they have engineered this (george orwell would be proud). What is even more amazing is how many people don't get it...

What is worst... folks I don't expect "our candidate" to win... I expect the election to be stolen once again. Oh and I also expect "our leaders" to once again seat on their hands, while the new Republican President is inaugurated.

Yep, caging lists have started... as well as other dirty tricks.... so don't expect this to be clean... and I know some of you may want this to go to the dungeon... that I guess, is your right... denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

Oh and eight states have determined the candidates, not even enough to even call it 1\4 of the voters nationally.

Nope, I don't expect anything to change, even if the dems will be better for MY pocketbook, but in issues that truly matter (cough, the war in Iraq, cough) their policies are very similar.

That does not mean I will stay home... as tempting as that may be.

I will vote.

The only reason is not love of country or civic duty. Leave that crap for people who believe that. Simply put I will vote to make them steal my vote.

At least I will have the quiet satisfaction that I did not make the election stealing easier by staying home.

But hope is gone

And democracy is a farce

Oh Cicero once wrote about the death of the Roman Republic, and even retired from its politics, realizing that in a new imperial age the nation chose emperors that would follow on the Imperial ideal. Any of the leading candidates will do that. regardless of party.

For many here this is just tinfoil thinking but alas the parallels to Rome (and other states) is too much. I guess we will soon hail Caesar, and forget about the Republic... and that is a sad state... oh and what's on Teevee? After all, we must continue to give the people bread and circuses.

and I thought we'd have a say... what a silly thing to say?

So I have two to choose from... and two who are not truly progressive (not that this shocks me anymore. We don't elect them, the corporations do... and no progressive will ever make it to the final if they have anything to say about it)

So who to vote for? I'd love to vote my conscience but that would be a wasted vote... and no time to register repig and vote for anybody but any of the two leading ones (and the party closed its primaries to us indies... so will have to do this with the two we have)

Lemme see... economics, Obama is more conservative than Hillary...

Health care... his plan is slightly better, but not really what we need (national single payer, healthcare... aka no profit in this)

The war... well Obama has been better insofar as the talk... but has missed some votes... and Hillary made that huge mistake she will never evah own to.

The so called war on terror... well the empire needs to keep chugging along so I suspect when all is said and done, it really does not matter

So it comes down to bush, clinton, bush... clinton...

I guess I will vote for Barack... because quite frankly I don't want that scenario... it is a bad precedent.. as in a really bad precedent... not that it matters. After the Roman Republic died, Emperors were chosen for their loyalty to the Imperial ideal, not the people of Rome... Cicero wrote, and the people were for ever entertained with the bread and circuses, we are at that stage.

For the record, I don't expect anything to change in DC of real substance... insofar as the Empire is concerned. Nor do I expect the Bush cabal to pay for their crimes... not until the American Empire falls... and that will come... in my lifetime.

But until any of that happens... it will be pro corporation dems or republicans. The dems are better for my pocket book... but hope that anything of substance, to benefit the little people will change... nope... the media will continue to crown candidates for BOTH parties and most sheep on both sides will continue to believe that THEY are making the decisions. The reality is far from that... but if you want to believe that you are supporting your candidate and the marketing gurus didn't have a thing to do with this... I guess you already went to room 101... and joined Smith.

Me... I will keep resisting as long as I can.

I will vote... but I don't expect that vote to make any difference. In fact, I expect the Republicans to steal yet another election and for most folks to shrug their shoulders in defeat. After all this McCain\Clinton showdown is exactly what they have wanted (and engineered) since the day after the 2006 election...

Asbestos suit on (after all I expect the partisans to send in their whooshing flames and nukes)

I guess I am now a far more cynical voter... who will ONLY vote to make them steal my vote.

if any of you believe you are electing YOUR candidate, you are delusional.

First they didn't cover Kucinich and then made sure he did not participate in debates... the media, yes the media had a great role in him not gaining any traction.

Now Edwards is droping out after the media telling us he is not viable for literally months and not really covering him either. He didn't gain any traction either... no face time, no traction.

This is going to be a historic election. Not only are we going to have the first woman or african american, but fully the first media made candidate. And the sad part is that many here on DU are going rah rah... the process is broken... to the point that YOU do not get to hear the candidates unless they are media (and corporation) approved

Sad.

Will many things change in DC if either of these two gets elected? Sadly, not really. Read Paul Krugman on the subject, and both their economic policies. Will they be slightly better than the Loons the republicans are running? Yes, but the empire will chug along just fine, as well as our descent into fascism. Of course History is a bitch, and if things get as bad as they did in 1930... well guess what? They either dust off keynes and the new deal, or they will be remembered as disasters. (And there is a good chance that things WILL turn out that badly)... so gloat around... your media created candidate is indeed the last man or woman standing.. as for me, I will vote... why? I will make them steal my vote. Nothing to do with citizen's duty or any of that crap. But hope is completely gone... that the system could even work. It does not... period. And I expect the media to pull the same crap in 2012, oh and I expect the media to further consolidate... after all five people owning all we watch and think and read is not enough... we need to get this down to at least three. And these two "candidates" will gladly help. After all, they owe quite a bit of their ambition to a broken media system that makes sure they get what they need. Oh and call me crazy, but they want HRC... after all with her back in the White House, you can COUNT on a scandal ridden administration, that WILL be investigated and probably impeached. After all, her crime being a woman and a Clinton.

Rant off...

Politics, smhelitics... Cicero was right... and he wrote about the Roman Republic and its failure! We are now witnessing the failure of the American Republic... so go ahead, rah, rah, rah..

Here is the problem... many of us don't see the young protesting... perhaps they believe they have a new way
and would love for the old foggies to go away. And for anybody conscious of the history of this country this generational
conflict is very familiar

Back in '68 the adage was... don't trust anybody over thirty.

It is back.

But in the midst of ipods and computers and all this new technology the youth is missing certain constants of US History and I must say... we failed you... since nobody teaches history any more.

The politics of direct action that was part of the sixties (and the draft was a big component of it) was not exclusive to the sixties.

Direct action, petitioning the government and marching is as old as the country. It didn't start in 1968 or with the Boomers.

The Suffragists did it as well. Heck it took over two generations for women who believed in the Seneca declaration to get the vote. The Suffragists didn't give up though, and they marched until they got it.

Labor organizers risked prison and death in the 1920s, either by being shot during the demonstrations, or faced jail time for organizing... the forty hour week was bought with the blood and tears of the labor movement who again didn't stay home, but got in the faces of those who didn't want them to organize. And when I hear, but you don't get it... I work... these workers pulled 12 and 14 hour shifts... of the most grueling type of work... so you will have to forgive me if I understand, but think this partly an excuse for a country... not only you, that has grown fast and lazy and apathetic.

The civil rights movement also saw direct action... and massive civil strife... as well as hoses, billy clubs and dogs and people were killed.


There are those, including a presidential candidate, that are telling us... we need to abandon the sixties... what they are telling you is that you need to abandon the politics of direct action and taking to the streets that brought the labor movement, womens vote, civil rights and other social events thoughout our collective history.

That is what they are telling you...

And yes... don't trust anybody over thirty... historically we've heard it before and not just in 1968. This talk has been present in one form or another almost from the begining.

Don't put down your I-POD, but buy Howard ZInn's A People's History of the American People in audio book form, and listen to it. Don't be afraid of learning how the history of this country refutes the let's stay home attitude... and perhaps we will need to take to the streets once again and march against billy clubs and machine guns. I sure hope we can sing through the whole bloody mess once again (My apologies Mr Guthrie)